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Setting limiters

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Tinnitus Rex View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinnitus Rex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2021 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by king david king david wrote:

I am using a y cable with xlr female ending up in two xlr male...could this bring signal loss?

Y splits?..if you link 10 or more amplifiers maybe , but  no,  no loss


Edited by Tinnitus Rex - 27 July 2021 at 11:12pm
"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2021 at 1:53am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

 Are you sure? Really?
Yes.. but to me RMS power is definied by sine waves so it will be 1/4 of AES or less.. which lines up pretty well with Powersofts recs. 

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

@king david: You also want to make sure the internal DSP on your K20 is bypassed
Isn't that what he is using? Where else is he getting RMS limiting? There is so much info missing here it's hard to know what's going on. 




Edited by Conanski - 28 July 2021 at 2:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2021 at 2:05am
Originally posted by king david king david wrote:

At 12db it just goes to 2nd light 
12dB where? On what piece of euipment?

And what is the Y cable connecting? 


Edited by Conanski - 28 July 2021 at 2:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2021 at 7:55am
The controller is a Nst audio d48s connected to a powersoft k20 (no dsp version) for the subs, ffa 10000 for the upper bass and ffa 6004 for the midtops. So 12db limiter for the sub is set on the nst audio. The y cable goes from the output of the crossover to the input of the amplifier. The sub box is an hog scoop loaded with a b&c 18sw115

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2021 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by king david king david wrote:

The controller is a Nst audio d48s connected to a powersoft k20 (no dsp version) for the subs, ffa 10000 for the upper bass and ffa 6004 for the midtops. So 12db limiter for the sub is set on the nst audio.
Are the other outputs set to limit at the same time? And how are you balancing the levels between the 3 bands.. with the output levels in the DSP or at the gain controls on the amplifiers? The thing is, in order for the limiters to work as designed the amp gains must be all the way up. System balance should be handled at the output level controls in the DSP, that usually means the mid and high output levels are set lower than the sub output as it's amp requires the highest drive level. But loudspeaker sensitivity for each band also factors into the balance equation so it's hard to say where everytihing would end up.


Originally posted by king david king david wrote:

The y cable goes from the output of the crossover to the input of the amplifier.
There is a link switch on the back of the K20 that does the same thing as a Y cable. Or you could just use more of the processor outputs. There is nothing wrong with using a Y cable it's just that it wasn't really necessary.


Edited by Conanski - 28 July 2021 at 2:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2021 at 3:16pm
.[/QUOTE] Are the other outputs set to limit at the same time? And how are you balancing the levels between the 3 bands.. with the output levels in the DSP or at the gain controls on the amplifiers? The thing is, in order for the limiters to work as designed the amp gains must be all the way up. System balance should be handled at the output level controls in the DSP, that usually means the mid and high output levels are set lower than the sub output as it's amp requires the highest drive level. But loudspeaker sensitivity for each band also factors into the balance equation so it's hard to say where everytihing would end up.

Amp gain all the way up...i control with the dsp and yes mid and top levels are set lower. Usually +6 sub, +1 kick, -1 midtops.
Also limiter kicks in at different levels, +14 sub, +12 kick, +9 midtop.



Originally posted by king david king david wrote:

The y cable goes from the output of the crossover to the input of the amplifier.
There is a link switch on the back of the K20 that does the same thing as a Y cable. Or you could just use more of the processor outputs. There is nothing wrong with using a Y cable it's just that it wasn't really necessary.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah i know but sometimes i just use ffa 10000 on sub and that one needs the y cable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2021 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by king david king david wrote:

.Amp gain all the way up...i control with the dsp and yes mid and top levels are set lower. Usually +6 sub, +1 kick, -1 midtops.
Also limiter kicks in at different levels, +14 sub, +12 kick, +9 midtop.

OK so what is the typical input level on the DSP? If you only drive it to unity(0dB) then your output levels are too low... add another 6dB to everything. And yes the limiters are set at different drive levels but they should all activate at the same time when music is playing, what you don't want is for example the subs to limit and the kicks and tops to keep getting louder, that wil sound unbalanced. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2021 at 8:21pm
Yes they are set at +6db, no worries everything’s good, I love the system, I’d just I like to know if I can drive the sub drivers/sub amp combination harder without frying everything. Still, it’s mostly just to talk, as COVID and restrictions forced the system to be
Used just few times since March 2020


Edited by king david - 28 July 2021 at 8:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2021 at 8:37pm
If you want to check things are being done properly, then along with the AES rating for the driver in free air, you also need to disregard the nominal free air impedance value and measure the electrical impedance curve of the driver in the cabinet.

You can do that with a good quality 1K resistor, some crocodile clips and the free REW software. There’s a guide in the manual that comes with it.

Then you can determine the nominal impedance for the pass band the sub operates in, and recalculate the limit threshold.
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