Skram vs. C2E - Subwoofers info research |
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smitske96
Young Croc Joined: 16 February 2016 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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@sushi
I use some SAN214.50 drivers in Cubo 21/sub. Until now no problems and they definitely move some air. Also have one 215.30 but am not planning to test it due to the loss of value (its still new).
Edited by smitske96 - 12 September 2022 at 11:39am |
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knet94
Old Croc Joined: 31 March 2008 Location: NW London Status: Offline Points: 1509 |
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No. It's Ben Wells of Elements Audio. Known as Bee on this forum.
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T Willy
Registered User Joined: 07 February 2022 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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I cannot speak for the san214.50, but i have owned a few Lavoce products now, and have found actual TS parameters to be different from the published parameters. The SAF184.50 was the worst. Inductance was quite a bit higher then published. Iirc it was like 3 to 4 mH higher, which in turn reduces the effective motor force by quite a bit. That shifts electrical Q value as well. If the published parameters are the same as actual, then the san214.50 would be an excellent bang for you buck driver. I would strongly advise having actual parameters pulled.
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smitske96
Young Croc Joined: 16 February 2016 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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@T Willy, what was your measurement setup etc?
Josh Ricci measured a 214.50 and the measured specs were quite dead on with factory specs.
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T Willy
Registered User Joined: 07 February 2022 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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DATS V2 It was definitely not the test or the dynamics of the test. I tested multiple drivers at the same time, as i usually do. The b&c 15nw76, the sb audience nero 18sw1100d, and the b&c 12mh32 I tested at the same time were all very accurate and extremely close to the published parameters. All tests go thru a 18-24 hour driver break in period and slight warming session prior to being tested.Full calibration prior as well. I do use the added mass method and can usually drop some 20 percent of MMS before DATS starts to complain. Typically, i start at MMS value and reduce by 5 grams until DATS says its had enough. The funny thing was when testing the Lavoce was that the MMS weight i started with already set off DATS warning notice. This does not typically happen when manufacture parameters are applied (ie. company recorded SD of the driver and MMS). I actually had to shift my added mass up by 25 percent to get a reading. Which tells me either their SD is off or the MMS is off. Which in this case, the MMS was off. This is something that can happen from time to time when sourcing builds from China. I have seen before where the supplier does a component change without notification to the customer. Quick swap a spider or coil for one that they believe to be the same in their eyes, but is very different in the real world. I contacted my Lavoce rep to show the results and i was told my tests were way off because of the mass used in the test. There was no ownership on Lavoce's side at all. Now, i have also tested the WAF123.01 driver and that one was pretty dang close! Again, inductance was higher then what was published but not nearly as drastic as the SAF184.50 driver. This one was off by maybe 1mH. And that could be a DATS thing as well. I do know Dats likes to inflate the VAS a little bit. So for conclusion, i'm not saying everyone of their products are wrong or far off. But i would suggest testing each one prior. Or at least I will, as my trust in their products faltered a little after finding that. Regardless of MMS value on my test, it still does not change the fact that inductance was ALOT higher then published. This alone is concerning because this is the difference between a driver being suitable for an enclosure, and a driver being a complete flop in an enclosure as demanding as a paraflex. |
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BigSoundNorthWest
Registered User Joined: 29 November 2014 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 290 |
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Safe, cheers
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alec.tron
New Member Joined: 31 March 2023 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Hai, unfortunately I can't PM as I just registered - but if you (or in case anyone else knows) could point me towards' that guy's post or user profile here, that would be grand - as I'd love to check where both of hers/his/theirs' builds, the Skram & Paraflex GF C-2E, might be listen-able to... Churs. c.
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MMJ of HOQS
Registered User Joined: 10 February 2022 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 61 |
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Alec.tron,
The fellow's name is Moehren Gras and at the time He was managing a makerspace in Berlin.... His shop is where we had an HOQS gathering over the weekend where various DIY speaker cabinets were brought in for listening ..... Could probably find the old discussion if we did some digging but it would be easier just to reach out and talk with him . . His direct link on Facebook is https://www.facebook.com/moehren.gras If an email address makes things easier for you just let me know .. Things have changed since the time of that gathering and lately we have been exploring some low tuned Paraflex subwoofer options such as our newer Type "O" CRAM! 2x18 subwoofer and the Type "R" 1x21 which are both tuned down around 30hz (Fb)... We are also in the process of updating our old C-2E 1x21 which is tuned to 28hz and the C-2E.3 1x18 (tuned in the same vicinity).. |
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hectorberman
Registered User Joined: 25 May 2017 Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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Are there any new skram users in the UK since the last post?
I'm itching to hear some!
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chrisBLN
New Member Joined: 05 December 2023 Location: berlin Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Hi Everyone, I'm the guy with the SKRAM and the Hackathon in Berlin!
The Sub sound audibly different when loaded with the 21NTLW5000, SAN215.30 or 21ds115. My preference is clearly towards the 21ds115 which gives it a warm, deep authority that other designs don't have. Everyone's preferences are different, so why don't you come to Berlin on March 15,16,17th and hear for yourself? =) Our next Hackathon is on for everyone interested in Sound: https://www.facebook.com/events/1088768702315086/ |
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bob4
Old Croc Joined: 29 February 2004 Location: Finland/Germany Status: Offline Points: 1842 |
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Hi, welcome, and thank you very much for sharing your insights!
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