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Skram vs. C2E - Subwoofers info research

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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2022 at 11:39am
@sushi 

I use some SAN214.50 drivers in Cubo 21/sub. Until now no problems and they definitely move some air. Also have one 215.30 but am not planning to test it due to the loss of value (its still new).


Edited by smitske96 - 12 September 2022 at 11:39am
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knet94 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knet94 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2022 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by BigSoundNorthWest BigSoundNorthWest wrote:

Is the "Ben" mentioned earlier on here, referring to Mr Weston, Illustraitor??


No. It's Ben Wells of Elements Audio. Known as Bee on this forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2022 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by sushi sushi wrote:

I'm actually in the same situation! Type C is nearly the size of a Skram and could use the same 21' suitable drivers. Could also have more output, but probably less low freq extension.. I would like to build both and give them a listen, nobody built them in italy so far. I think Skrams are more like what i need for now, but i still have time to decide: i'm not buying 4 drivers any soon, i fear.. B&C 21" woofers prices rised a lot in one year! Probably i'd manage to purchase a pair, but will wait for the next year to buy more..
Anyone has any feedback on LaVoce San214.50? Designed in italy and made in china, this explains the lower price (almost half of B&C's ones) but in the end.. are these good drivers?
Cheers

I cannot speak for the san214.50, but i have owned a few Lavoce products now, and have found actual TS parameters to be different from the published parameters. The SAF184.50 was the worst. Inductance was quite a bit higher then published. Iirc it was like 3 to 4 mH higher, which in turn reduces the effective motor force by quite a bit. That shifts electrical Q value as well.
If the published parameters are the same as actual, then the san214.50 would be an excellent bang for you buck driver. I would strongly advise having actual parameters pulled.  
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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2022 at 2:34pm
@T Willy, what was your measurement setup etc?

Josh Ricci measured a 214.50 and the measured specs were quite dead on with factory specs.
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T Willy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2022 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

@T Willy, what was your measurement setup etc?

Josh Ricci measured a 214.50 and the measured specs were quite dead on with factory specs.


DATS V2
It was definitely not the test or the dynamics of the test. I tested multiple drivers at the same time, as i usually do. The b&c 15nw76, the sb audience nero 18sw1100d, and the b&c 12mh32 I tested at the same time were all very accurate and extremely close to the published parameters. All tests go thru a 18-24 hour driver break in period and slight warming session prior to being tested.Full calibration prior as well. I do use the added mass method and can usually drop some 20 percent of MMS before DATS starts to complain. Typically, i start at MMS value and reduce by 5 grams until DATS says its had enough. The funny thing was when testing the Lavoce was that the MMS weight i started with already set off DATS warning notice. This does not typically happen when manufacture parameters are applied (ie. company recorded SD of the driver and MMS). I actually had to shift my added mass up by 25 percent to get a reading. Which tells me either their SD is off or the MMS is off. Which in this case, the MMS was off. This is something that can happen from time to time when sourcing builds from China. I have seen before where the supplier does a component change without notification to the customer. Quick swap a spider or coil for one that they believe to be the same in their eyes, but is very different in the real world. I contacted my Lavoce rep to show the results and i was told my tests were way off because of the mass used in the test. There was no ownership on Lavoce's side at all.
Now, i have also tested the WAF123.01 driver and that one was pretty dang close! Again, inductance was higher then what was published but not nearly as drastic as the SAF184.50 driver. This one was off by maybe 1mH. And that could be a DATS thing as well. I do know Dats likes to inflate the VAS a little bit.

So for conclusion, i'm not saying everyone of their products are wrong or far off. But i would suggest testing each one prior. Or at least I will, as my trust in their products faltered a little after finding that. Regardless of MMS value on my test, it still does not change the fact that inductance was ALOT higher then published. This alone is concerning because this is the difference between a driver being suitable for an enclosure, and a driver being a complete flop in an enclosure as demanding as a paraflex.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigSoundNorthWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2022 at 5:08pm
Safe, cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alec.tron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2023 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by MMJ of HOQS MMJ of HOQS wrote:

 In fact one of the guys in Germany who owns both a Skram and some 35hz tuned Paraflex GF C-2E subs has stated that he has an upcoming performance involving deep subbass synth sounds (the sort of stuff that revolves around the vicinity of 30hz) and plans to use the Skram for that because he knows the Skram will really shine in this situation ... 
Hai, unfortunately I can't PM as I just registered - but if you (or in case anyone else knows) could point me towards' that guy's post or user profile here, that would be grand - as I'd love to check where both of hers/his/theirs' builds, the Skram & Paraflex GF C-2E, might be listen-able to...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MMJ of HOQS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2023 at 11:41pm
Alec.tron, 

The fellow's name is Moehren Gras and at the time He was managing a makerspace in Berlin.... His shop is where we had an HOQS gathering over the weekend where various DIY speaker cabinets were brought in for listening  .....

Could probably find the old discussion if we did some digging but it would be easier just to reach out and talk with him . .

His direct link on Facebook is https://www.facebook.com/moehren.gras

If an email address makes things easier for you just let me know .. 

Things have changed since the time of that gathering and lately we have been exploring some low tuned Paraflex subwoofer options such as our newer Type "O" CRAM! 2x18 subwoofer and the Type "R" 1x21 which are both tuned down around 30hz (Fb)... We are also in the process of updating our old C-2E 1x21 which is tuned to 28hz and the C-2E.3 1x18 (tuned in the same vicinity)..  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hectorberman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2023 at 8:39pm
Are there any new skram users in the UK since the last post?
I'm itching to hear some!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisBLN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2024 at 11:25am
Hi Everyone,  I'm the guy with the SKRAM and the Hackathon in Berlin!

The Sub sound audibly different when loaded with the 21NTLW5000, SAN215.30 or 21ds115. My preference is clearly towards the 21ds115 which gives it a warm, deep authority that other designs don't have. 

Everyone's preferences are different, so why don't you come to Berlin on March 15,16,17th and hear for yourself? =)

Our next Hackathon is on for everyone interested in Sound: https://www.facebook.com/events/1088768702315086/


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bob4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2024 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by chrisBLN chrisBLN wrote:

Hi Everyone,  I'm the guy with the SKRAM and the Hackathon in Berlin!

The Sub sound audibly different when loaded with the 21NTLW5000, SAN215.30 or 21ds115. My preference is clearly towards the 21ds115 which gives it a warm, deep authority that other designs don't have. 

Everyone's preferences are different, so why don't you come to Berlin on March 15,16,17th and hear for yourself? =)

Our next Hackathon is on for everyone interested in Sound: https://www.facebook.com/events/1088768702315086/



Hi, welcome, and thank you very much for sharing your insights!
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