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MT 121 options and mods...

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Dokkodo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 January 2022 at 1:14pm
I think im gonna build a pair of MT 121, i have a pair of SN12b's on the way, got a good deal. Comp t.b.c....

I already have a lovely pair of subs.

So i would like something to cover the ground between them, a low-mid kick or something between 100/120 - 300hz...

I have a pair of cheapo http://https://electromarket.co.uk/skytec-15-bass-woofer-speaker-drivers-pair - skytec 15" drivers spare, which i found unused second hand, will use these for now until i have saved more pocket money after the build materials.

So i figure my options are a modded MT121 to incorporate a relfex 15" like this http://https://forum.speakerplans.com/15-kick-mod-for-mt121-comments_topic40282_page1. - post suggests...
The http://wizardaudio.hu/hasznos/hangfal%20tervek/top/horn/pdf/Selenium%20PAS1MA1.pdf - Selenium PAS1MA1 looks to be this sort of thing, an MT122 but with a 12 and a 15 instead of 2 x 12s - but i cant find evidence of anyone ever building or measuring one, let alone singing its praises...

Alternative is building a seperate 15" box to go between subs and tops, DIY favs seem to include HD15, Cubo15 and i quite like the look of the Tham15. The MTH30 would fit nicely dimension wise but id have to get more 12s instead of the 15s i have. But im not sure whats most appropriate for my application...

Which will be for a very general purpose travelling rig, indoors, outdoors, mixed genre, 100-300 people sort of thing. A big, sweet sounding hi-fi im hoping. Im also wondering if the horn loaded mid tops might throw too much for indoor use and i should just find/design a reflex set of tops.

Im a joiner with access to a woodworking workshop, so build complexity not really a problem. I have a lathe and like the idea of making phase plugs, but not because i understand them to be appropriate, mainly because they look cool ... is that a good enough reason?! The 'simons 3 way' has them and that appeals but is 10 and 8, rather than 15 and 12, and i dont have the software or knowledge to scale the idea up.

Anyway thanks all, any thoughts most welcome.

PS - i have a DSP from previous setup, but am learning rapidly about the more involved setup stuff. Especially using delaying to balance a setup, if thats something i should learn more about for this then someone tell me so!


Edited by Dokkodo - 19 January 2022 at 2:01pm
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djeddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2022 at 7:29pm
Using a kick cab up to 300Hz rules out the HD15, and suchlike. They will honk like crazy at that high a frequency.

Before cutting the wood, have a search for the SMT212. Yes, it's an older design, but it does use the SN12b's IIRC. It may be more suited to your needs and it doesn't need a kick cab as such. You can run them from about 120/130 upwards. I built a pair for someone a few years back and he used them above a pair of twin 18 bass cabs. That was for a band PA, but also the occasional DJ used them when there wasn't enough room for two different systems, (DJ just plugged into the bands desk).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2022 at 8:59pm
Hi! Just some thoughts... 

Modded mt121 with incorporated 15 - weights a ton! An mt121 is already a big heavy cab to lift. And reflex 15 will not keep up with mt121.

You talk about big sweet hi-fi... Much easier to get that with simple reflex/horn combo than mt121. Both will require some aligning and eq to sound sweet ( so yes look into that and REW free measuring software if you want to diy dsp presets) but horns needs more messing around, reflex will go higher and lower making crossover easier.

I understand the horn fascination - i have mt121myself - but if you are not aiming to grow bigger and cover bigger audiences a reflex midtop would be perfect in your scenario, buy quality drivers and it will be loud enough for two subs, and wider dispersion would suit better in many situations, sometimes just two mt121 is not wide enough.

The smt someone suggested is halfway if you want to keep the soundsystem look without going fully hornloaded.
You could also check 18sound or b&c suggested enlcosure desigh for well documented builds with crossover schematics and measurements.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dokkodo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2022 at 10:26pm
Thanks both.

I had wondered this, perhaps a reflex midtop is the way to go then. It just seemed from my reading so far that while dispersion and frquency range is greater, you dont get the oomph horns afford. but i suppose that oomph is no good if it ends up in the wrong place.

still curious about the selenium design.

thought i cleverly embedded my links in the original post, seems they have unravelled themselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 6:26pm
Bear in mind the Selenium plans are now about twenty years old, if not more.

BTW -> Links won't work until you've made a few posts... I think. Something to do with newbie's to the forum putting dodgy links up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2022 at 2:32pm
MT121, with Simple 15" reflex cab below it, just buy the loudest most efficient 15" reflex driver you can afford.

Run the 15" 70-180hz, job done.


Edited by levyte357- - 21 January 2022 at 2:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dokkodo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2022 at 6:15pm
What about a cubo kick 15? Seems like that's designed to hit the desired range between MT and Subs, if the SMTs can go down to 90ish and then cubo up to 200, that should provide more than enough thump...

https://www.freespeakerplans.com/plans/14-plans/basscab/54-cubo-kick


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2022 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Dokkodo Dokkodo wrote:

What about a cubo kick 15? Seems like that's designed to hit the desired range between MT and Subs, if the SMTs can go down to 90ish and then cubo up to 200, that should provide more than enough thump...





Absolutely no cab, has the same flat response, 80-300hz, as a 15" reflex driver, in the right box.

SMT212 in my books,  just does not compare, to MT121 with exceptional 12" driver, and correctly processed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dokkodo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2022 at 11:58am
Ok think I am increasingly settled on MT over SMT, got sn12b‘s coming and just found a pair of b&c de750s too

any particular reflex designs you’d recommend?
Cubo kick just looked interesting as cubo described it as half reflex half horn, but if straight reflex is going to be unequivocally better then I’m all ears 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dokkodo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2022 at 7:24pm
Seems the B&C Sub15 is a good option. Will see how she fares with my current 15"s and upgrade when ive recovered from all this outlay...
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