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Recommend a soundcard for measurements

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JonB67 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 March 2022 at 2:51pm
What soundcard should i get to start measuring my rig in REW?

I already have a Behringer ECM8000.

Was looking a the focusrite scarlett range but have a vague memory that Toasty said the Behringer Uphoria cards were good enough for the purpose and very cheap - but which one would I need?

UMC2
UMC22
UMC202

Likely to use it to set up my dcx to get tops and subs playing nicely and later get the crossover out of the top and have them running active.

Thanks,

Jon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2022 at 6:30pm
Get one that has mic input with phantom power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 1:23am
After a few years of (ab)use I will revise that past statement to this: the Behringer UMCx0xHD series can be used for measurement, with some caveats. There is a significant distortion component present in the preamp circuit, which becomes problematic when using long log sine sweeps such as those generated by REW.

There's a lot more info and some mods to improve things a bit here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/behringer-umc-202hd-for-measurements.341309/

If you're using a laptop, make sure to also use balanced connectors to reduce power supply noise in the data. If possible, do your sweeps on battery. Also, power the audio interface with its own DC mains adapter, you'll get much more stable and repeatable data.

Or, you can just buy a better audio interface to start with 🥲 if time were money, I’d have bought a nice box with all the time I’ve spent questioning the data from the Behringer.

In 2022, I'd save the extra pennies for something from the high quality production circles, such as an Arturia MiniFuse2 https://www.arturia.com/products/audio/minifuse/minifuse2

Edit: just to add that an RME interface is expensive because it’s very linear and they last for ages in terms of tech support .

Edited by toastyghost - 25 March 2022 at 1:26am
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 11:36am
Just went to buy an Arturia Minifuse 2 but was told it doesn't have the capacity to run from a power supply - and nor does the focusrite scarlett 212 - you have to go up to an 18i20 or Arturia Minifuse 4 to get a separate power supply. 

How much of an issue is it bearing in mind I am running off a laptop? I don't need that many inputs and i dont want to spend that much money unless its really necessary for good results.


Edited by JonB67 - 25 March 2022 at 11:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 12:35pm
for similar money you can get a calibrated Minidsp UMIKII
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 1:37pm
And is that better? 

Can't use that to measure impedance to tune the boxes though presumably.

So is the best solution a umik2 and a cheap behringer UMC22/202 to do impedance measurements or buy the Arturia minifuse?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 3:10pm
I use this:

It measures very well if used for signals below 18dBu, can do 192k sample rate.  Some weirdness with different gains on the inputs depending on whether jack or XLR is used but once you are aware of that it's manageable with adapters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

for similar money you can get a calibrated Minidsp UMIKII


Single-ended measurements are limited in scope, as is the USB cable being fixed to 5m max.

The pro-choice is to find a second-hand Roland Octa-Capture. They’re digitally controlled preamp units that pass muster in testing. If the (now defunct) WaveCapture guys rated them, then they’re good.

Edited by toastyghost - 25 March 2022 at 4:44pm
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 6:28pm
So no seperate power supply not an issue?

If not im just going to get the minifuse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 8:18pm
I ditched my 18i2 partly because it used an external psu and bought a 2i2 Thumbs Up Minifuse looks decent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2022 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

So no seperate power supply not an issue?

If not im just going to get the minifuse.


It depends on what you’re doing, and how stable the system is when providing DC output for phantom. That’s also dependent on your laptop to some extent, as much as the audio interface itself. Using an external PSU to drive the interface reduces the risk of throttling or uneven power delivery as your laptop tries to maximise battery life.

You can always do more averaging, but half the battle is knowing in advance what you should expect to see when making a measurement - if you don't know what should be on the screen, how do you know if the data you have is valid?

The best way to do that is to just get started, but question what you get in the software. Use different stimuli, different mic locations, drive levels, etc - and read some books or papers or better, do a course as well. Only change one thing at a time. Learn where reflections are in the data, how to window them out (and when you can't), what coherence is, what the limits of that are, different ways to display the impulse response such as the Heyser Energy Time Curve or Cepstrum, so on.

Enjoy the rabbit hole 😀
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