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dbx AutoEQ feature - standalone?

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teeth View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 September 2022 at 10:37am
more and more i find myself helping out people that don't know so much about sound systems. i'm looking for turnkey solutions and have become a bit obsessed with optimising on this front.

to this end i'm looking at the dbx driverack PA2 which features an "autoEQ" feature. AFAIK it's a RTA attached to the system EQ. i like this idea, i like it a lot. i would like to use this in my turnkey hires.

i'm really happy with my dbmark units so don't really want to change DSP just to get a PA2 (or is it PA+?)

is anyone aware of a standalone unit or solution along these lines?

i would be OK with the client taking measurements on a program if they were given very concrete EQ changes they could program, but i wouldn't want it to be any more complex than this (IE no interpretation, just "boost xHz at ydB")

open to other solutions too.

posted in newb forum as thought it might be helpful.
thanks.
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DMorison View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2022 at 2:23pm
Highly recommend you don't go there; especially for turnkey hires.

The software in that & similar products in the past is limited in what it can discern, so may result in erroneous EQ decisions being made.

For example, it cannot tell why a given frequency is high or low, which may result in running out of headroom if you try to EQ up a frequency that was low merely due to the mic being placed in a null arising from the room's acoustics. Or, if a frequency is high due to reflections it'll EQ down, resulting in holes in the response everywhere else in the space.

Proper measurement systems like Smaart etc use timing references to help separate out the system's response from the acoustics of the space, but are more expensive and take much more understanding to use effectively.

Useful measurement really needs an operator who understands these kind of limitations and can interpret the readings correctly and not just apply EQ filters automatically.
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2022 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by teeth teeth wrote:

more and more i find myself helping out people that don't know so much about sound systems. i'm looking for turnkey solutions and have become a bit obsessed with optimising on this front.

Unfortunately there is a TON of data interpretation that needs to be done to properly optimize a speaker system and a non technical person has no business mucking around with any of that. Most of the optimization a speaker system needs can(and should) be done in a controlled non refletive(outdoor) environment away from structures. There the crossovers, time and phase alignment, response corrections and final voicing can be established and saved and then the end user should need nothing more than some minor EQ tweaks in a venue. If you want a bulletproof(as close as it gets) alternative solution to that.. buy powered speakers. 

As far as AutoEQ goes.. don't waste your time or money, it's only giving you a small piece of the bigger picture and in the hands of somebody who doesn't know any better could do more damage than good. 





Edited by Conanski - 11 September 2022 at 3:20pm
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teeth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2022 at 4:38pm
yeh dude fair play. i feel the same way.

the system is broadly set up ok, i just want them to simply dial in a few bits for when i'm not there.

most people it goes to are competent enough to plug it in and get it going (ok, with instructions) so i'm not adverse to a bit of fiddling their end.

are you aware of any "simpler" analysis programs they could run that spit out instructions instead of data? (hmm, maybe there's a marketable product here if not :P )

i guess they could look at a graph and boost things from there... not too much of a stretch... or maybe it is. i'm going to see if there's a VST or something they can run in a DAW, hopefully that would lead to a slightly more stripped down program / interface... then they can just press "listen" and look at a graph...

i had suspected autoEQ wasn't that good tbh ;)
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teeth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2022 at 4:40pm
also another reason is psychological...

if people have a hand in the set up, they are more happy with the end result :p

need a DFA button!
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DMorison View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2022 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by teeth teeth wrote:

i guess they could look at a graph and boost things from there... not too much of a stretch... or maybe it is.

Again, no, don't go there.

This is the crux of the limitations of any time-blind system like an auto EQ or RTA - it can't tell why a frequency may be low, so if you just go ahead and boost everywhere on the graph that looks low, you can end up doing more harm than good to the sound, or even the drivers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2022 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by DMorison DMorison wrote:

Originally posted by teeth teeth wrote:

i guess they could look at a graph and boost things from there... not too much of a stretch... or maybe it is.

Again, no, don't go there.

This is the crux of the limitations of any time-blind system like an auto EQ or RTA - it can't tell why a frequency may be low, so if you just go ahead and boost everywhere on the graph that looks low, you can end up doing more harm than good to the sound, or even the drivers.

This.
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teeth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2022 at 9:44am
the search continues...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SamV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2022 at 10:33am
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Originally posted by DMorison DMorison wrote:

Originally posted by teeth teeth wrote:

i guess they could look at a graph and boost things from there... not too much of a stretch... or maybe it is.

Again, no, don't go there.

This is the crux of the limitations of any time-blind system like an auto EQ or RTA - it can't tell why a frequency may be low, so if you just go ahead and boost everywhere on the graph that looks low, you can end up doing more harm than good to the sound, or even the drivers.

This.

This x2

If people want it sound better, first they need to learn to use their ears and how eqs etc work or hire someone who does. Then you can move onto the fancy software/plots/waterfalls. The very first step though, is to go get your ears tested so you know what your own response is like. Then you can compensate for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2022 at 11:32am
only ever used the auto-eq on the ultradrive but I did start off trying to use it as you suggest and it's not easy. you could get it to do something sensible if you put it in slow adjustment mode and moved the mic around the listening area whilst it was running. but i always preferred to do <200Hz with a tone generator and my ears. still need to program a sensible target curve and adjust the bass and treble levels to compensate for loudness and the number of people in the room - and the source material. it's very easy to get sucked into thinking the computer says it sounds right so it must be right and ignoring your ears saying it sounds terrible. these days I use REW, test tones, and a few very familiar music tracks that everyone knows how they should sound.
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