X15 top end - some input please

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   The eternal struggle continues to find a good combination of
compression driver and horn that will satisfy budget and audio
requirements. I drew up a little table that has the two specced
options, plus a middle option as championed by ceharden recently. I
just included the price as this is often the overriding factor for many
home builders. Having said that...

I have never heard any of these combos before so I was hoping members
of the list could summarise their experiences with these options, maybe
listening subjective qualities such like vocal sweetness/harshness,
musicality of the reproduction, etc. and more(ish) tangible qualities
like projection, plots or measurements, etc. so that we may all benefit
from the experiences - and I can finally buy some drivers this week!

Availabilty of the components around the world might also be good
information, as I know our American cousins struggle to get some of the
specced components from this site.

I left the mid bass driver in the price as this is assumed to be the
best option all round (and another thread might be better used to
discuss the bottom end if people wanted to).

Cheaper Option

------------------------------------------

Mid/bass driver    p-audio SN15MB      89

Comp driver        p-audio BMD450      42

Horn               p-audio PH220       19

Adaptor   
        NA   
              0

X-Over   
         PAP VX1  
          22 (?)

Cost per cab        172

Middle Option

------------------------------------------            

Mid/bass driver    p-audio SN15MB      89

Comp driver        B&C DE250           79

Horn               18sound xt1086      30 (?)

Adaptor   
        NA   
              0

X-Over   
         PAP VX1 ?   
       22 (?)

               Cost
per cab        220

Expensive Option

------------------------------------------

Mid/bass driver    p-audio SN15MB      89

Comp driver        p-audio SD740N      158

Horn               p-audio PH3220      23

Adaptor            p-audio PC5038      9

X-Over   
         PAP VX2   
         22

Cost per cab        301

I am heading towards the middle option I think...

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angus Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 10 August 2005 Location: TW, Kent, UK Status: Offline Points: 516	Post Options Post Reply Quote angus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: X15 top end - some input please Posted: 15 November 2005 at 4:56am
	The eternal struggle continues to find a good combination of compression driver and horn that will satisfy budget and audio requirements. I drew up a little table that has the two specced options, plus a middle option as championed by ceharden recently. I just included the price as this is often the overriding factor for many home builders. Having said that... I have never heard any of these combos before so I was hoping members of the list could summarise their experiences with these options, maybe listening subjective qualities such like vocal sweetness/harshness, musicality of the reproduction, etc. and more(ish) tangible qualities like projection, plots or measurements, etc. so that we may all benefit from the experiences - and I can finally buy some drivers this week! Availabilty of the components around the world might also be good information, as I know our American cousins struggle to get some of the specced components from this site. I left the mid bass driver in the price as this is assumed to be the best option all round (and another thread might be better used to discuss the bottom end if people wanted to). Cheaper Option ------------------------------------------ Mid/bass driver p-audio SN15MB 89 Comp driver p-audio BMD450 42 Horn p-audio PH220 19 Adaptor NA 0 X-Over PAP VX1 22 (?) Cost per cab 172 Middle Option ------------------------------------------ Mid/bass driver p-audio SN15MB 89 Comp driver B&C DE250 79 Horn 18sound xt1086 30 (?) Adaptor NA 0 X-Over PAP VX1 ? 22 (?) Cost per cab 220 Expensive Option ------------------------------------------ Mid/bass driver p-audio SN15MB 89 Comp driver p-audio SD740N 158 Horn p-audio PH3220 23 Adaptor p-audio PC5038 9 X-Over PAP VX2 22 Cost per cab 301 I am heading towards the middle option I think...

angus Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 10 August 2005 Location: TW, Kent, UK Status: Offline Points: 516	Post Options Post Reply Quote angus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 November 2005 at 4:57am
	Oh, I guess this might be a general topic for top end reproduction, but as there has been a bit of noise on the X15 recently and that's what I'm building, I put it in here. It's all good information! Edit:spelling Edited by angus - 15 November 2005 at 4:58am

Fats Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 23 October 2005 Status: Offline Points: 10	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fats Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 November 2005 at 11:01am
	While still unsure myself of the comp drivers i'm going to use in my x15s, i would consider using a different crossover from the PAP VX1or2.. Simply because i was told they can only take about 400ish (or less)watts through them, and i've been led to believe this would limit the potential loudness of the x15s if compared to using for example a Selenium crossover that could take 600w, allowing you to push the drivers further....

ceharden Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776	Post Options Post Reply Quote ceharden Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 November 2005 at 11:23am
	Or for ultimate performance, especially with a CD as good as the DE250, it has to be active really....

angus Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 10 August 2005 Location: TW, Kent, UK Status: Offline Points: 516	Post Options Post Reply Quote angus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 November 2005 at 12:23pm
	@ceharden: Have you had any experience running these passively? IIRC your tests were done active for your modified X15s weren't they? So probably not. Norty, you ran your X15s passive for a bit with an EP2500 - did you run into any problems with your x-over?

ceharden Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776	Post Options Post Reply Quote ceharden Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 November 2005 at 12:39pm
	No experience with running passively sorry. Since I had crossovers and amps handy before I started building cabs I haven't bothered trying to build passive crossovers yet. I like being able to play with the crossover point and gains too much

angus Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 10 August 2005 Location: TW, Kent, UK Status: Offline Points: 516	Post Options Post Reply Quote angus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 November 2005 at 12:58pm
	I've just re-read the (very useful) 'new multi purpose monitors' thread here and Dom is saying he runs his passive with anything from 450W to 700W, presumably without issue, so maybe PAP are being over cautious? (Dom's monitors have the cheaper option of components listed above btw)

Dom Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 25 February 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1700	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dom Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 November 2005 at 1:49pm
	I don't think you can say they will or won't take a certain amount of power, it's going to be dependant on where you cross them over and what sort of material you're playing. I run mine on different amps that can output from 450-700w at 8ohms per channel. That doesn't mean I driver them continously into clip with pink noise though. If I did and I melted the crossovers I'd only have myself to blame really. The bass driver is only rated at 300W rms. You don't need to drive them hard to get a lot of noise. They also don't play any sub so you should high pass them so you're not sticking lots of unnecessary power through the xover that the box won't play anyway. I'm using the VXM crossover by the way. You should also factor in the cost of an l-pad as you will need one.
	"It sounded like a million fire engines chasing ten million ambulances through a war zone and it was played at a volume that made the empty chair beside me bleed."

norty303 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Eastbourne Status: Offline Points: 8806	Post Options Post Reply Quote norty303 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 January 2006 at 2:06pm
	I ran mine passive until we realised the supplied x-over by PAP was crossing too high and there was a bit of roughness from the 15". Run them active now with 175w per BM450 and 550w (1 channel of PLX3402 for both drivers) per sn15mb. As Dom says, you really don't have to drive them hard to get noise. As for the sub thing - I ahem had a strange thing happen cough where somehow the sub output of my ultradrive got connected to the sn15mbs. Just 1100w of 40-80hz being pummelled through them. Took me a while of muting sections before i worked out my subs were really not too bad in the 180hz-1.6khz range!! The sn15's gave a very good showing too and really demonstrated how robust they can be
	My laser stuff: Frikkin Lasers

angus Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 10 August 2005 Location: TW, Kent, UK Status: Offline Points: 516	Post Options Post Reply Quote angus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 January 2006 at 8:42am
	Thanks for the useful input and sorry I forgot to reply to this post. In the end I went for spec1 as per the plans on the site, which is the same as the cheaper option listed above in this thread and PAP supplied me with their recommended xover which is the VXM. The website has now been updated slightly but doesn't mention the power handling of this xover. I shall run the 2 X15s passive one either side off an EP2500 to start with and I have already bought the correct l-pad resistors from farnell for a 9db cut on the top. Cheers guys and I really do hope to post some finsihed pics once work quietens down a bit. angus

ceharden Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776	Post Options Post Reply Quote ceharden Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 January 2006 at 1:36pm
	If anyone is interested I've just built some passive crossovers for my boxes. Approx 1k6 LR 12dB/oct. Sound very good, almost as good as active. I used 1.2mH and 8uF for both high and low pass. Haven't fitted the Zobel impedance compensation for the LF yet but that will just be a 22uF cap and a 6R8 resistor. Components from Wilmslow audio.