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demanddeepbass View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 14 June 2006
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demanddeepbass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: depth
    Posted: 30 January 2007 at 8:54am

Just some amusement for you chaps: It’s a JBL 2242 in a 6 meter long quarter wave enclosure with a pair of PD1850s in transmission lines. Bridged MacroTech 1202 for the JBL and a bridged CA6 each for the 1850s….. at least till one smoked and I had to change them for HK2400s. The mains were five Genalec 1038Bs. Also had a bunch of eminence butt kickers bolted to the floor which were quite fun. Theory says the rig was 3dB down at 13.5Hz. Don’t know how many dB we actually got though cos I couldn’t find a SPL meter with a long enough integration time and the right filter settings to measure that low accurately.

We had some problems initially with the whole thing vibrating back and fourth at really low Hz. We had to strap them all together, load them up with stage weights and strap them to the floor with 5 ton ratchets to keep the efficiency up. Setting the positioning and phasing right was a nightmare.

I know James hates Macrotechs but I think they’re the best amp going for subsonics. CA6s on the other hand are crap and blow up if you send them full power low frequency sine waves – CA9s do the same that’s the third one I’ve broke in exactly the same way, I don’t know why I expected them to do anything different this time, I think I’ll keep them for mids and highs only from now on.

We got some pretty extreme low frequency out of it all. The doors of the 150 seat auditorium flap back and fourth about an inch at 12 Hz. Playing “system check” by Brockie & Ed Solo was amazing and actually blurred my vision because my eyeballs were vibrating! We watched some films on the rig too after the gig and I’ve never really “experienced” film like that, bass notes and explosions kind of feel like they’ll keep on dropping deeper indefinitely. It’s the closest I’ve got to being able to reproduce things like thunder and fireworks accurately. Still not quite right but you defiantly get more of the depth and physical sensation of the real thing. I spose you start to run into problems with the mics and methods used to record them in the first place when it’s that deep.

I know it’s not a remotely fair comparison but in this application the JBL absolutely beat the crap out of a pair of 1850s. The 2242 is an incredible driver but very hard to get hold of and ridiculously expensive over here. Mine was a lucky ebay find, I’ve got a genuine recone kit and I’m waiting for a blown one to turn so I can get another cheap. Problem is they don’t seem to blow up very often!





"These amps go up to 11"
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Gramps View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gramps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2007 at 9:32am
Always wondered why people don't use transmission line loading more for P/A use, as LF extension wise they are pretty hard to beat..

I suppose the size/weight of T/L cabs make them pretty impractical though, and performance wise they aren't significantly different to a reflex cab, for most of their usable range, which are alot more cost effective and have almost the same effect from a much smaller/cheaper/less complex enclosure (unless of course you are after the sorts of frequencies that you talk about above).
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demanddeepbass View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demanddeepbass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2007 at 10:17am
Exactly; heavier, more complex, larger, more expensive, less efficient (possibly) but lower and less distortion.
Also less well understood I think. When they first appeared there were some designs that were just rubbish and some which worked very well.
Enclosure design was much more of a black art than reflex. The computer models are better now and when they're done right they are hard to beat from a sound quality point of view. My favorite speakers of all time are the PMC BB5s and associated XB3 sub
http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/bb5p.html
The whole PMC range is transmission line based and I've not heard a duff one from them yet!
"These amps go up to 11"
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Gramps View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gramps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2007 at 12:40pm
Mmmmmmm... 15" Volt radials and ATC mids..... Seen them used in the outside broadcast vehicles. Beasts! Can't imagine you ever needing a sub for them though...

Had a pair of the PMC mk1 FB1s for a while and didn't really like them, found their sound quite dry and weirdly rough through the midband, same with the smallish stand mounters that use basically the same drive units (DB1s?).

I very nearly bought a pair of their strangely sized, sort of half way between standmounter/floorstanders, with the Dynaudio drive units in them, which sounded utterly gorgeous. Found a pair of secondhand ATCs though before I got them, and fell instantly in love!  
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gingerbiscuit69 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gingerbiscuit69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2007 at 6:31am
ive had a random out the box thought, along the line of folded bass horns, but a fold transmission line?

use an 18" diametre flexible tubing, wound into a big lollipop shape, then use something to bolt it all together and put something on to strenghen it. Would mean it could be transported easier and would look pretty wierd but kool. Would there be acoustic issues here? if not i may give it a go!!

cheers, pat
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mykey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2007 at 7:08am
Originally posted by gingerbiscuit69 gingerbiscuit69 wrote:

ive had a random out the box thought, along the line of folded bass horns, but a fold transmission line?

use an 18" diametre flexible tubing, wound into a big lollipop shape, then use something to bolt it all together and put something on to strenghen it. Would mean it could be transported easier and would look pretty wierd but kool. Would there be acoustic issues here? if not i may give it a go!!

cheers, pat
there already doing stuff like that in the HIFI world Ginge
@ deemandeepbass
 
i just had similar experiance with my DUBSUB 3.65 metre horn path
 
hearing sub signal's in Dub music i have never heard before was wicked
like elephants stomping around
 
makes a change i can say, i'm fed up with cold Turbo and F1 sounding bin's
 
i know what you mean by the doors vibrating as well
the side panels before i screwed a piece of 4x2'' to them were moving an 1'' either way , was mental
 
keep up the good work i love hearing stuff like this.
 
a quick story about some Austrian guy's  that came to my stand once at Plaza
 
they saw this huge bin i had on display and asked me and Phil if we would travel to Austria and dig a huge hole and build a huge horn in the ground facing upwards then put some heavy guage steel sheeting across it, im talking big horn here
 
i then asked what were they going to do with it?
 
wait for it..
 
they said they were going to build a club over it, and the horn was the dance floor
 
i told them that this would be dangerous
the answer with a German stroke Austrian accent...
yes ve know zis, but zis iz onzy for effecttttttt
 
sycho's
edit. get the lion king movie, there's a bit when an elephant stomp's it's feet, awesome if you have the right low enough  speaker's
 


Edited by mykey - 04 February 2007 at 7:43am
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Old Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRE4U2NV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2007 at 12:14pm
i was there when they said that  mostly i remember £600w for electricity
IM SO SECRETIVE BUT I CANT TELL YOU WHY
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peppa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peppa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2007 at 5:25pm
Hi Gramps
ur right the transmissionline box does sound superb on  a PA system built some transmissionline bandpass boxes in1995 for a sound called EXorcist the carribean island of Antigua had to use (3)Cerwin veaga folded horns to get same SPL as tranmissionbandpass box all speakers were playing from a Audiopro 3000.PS if any forum members were in Antigua (december 95 @ thaBush Garden dance Exorcist v Stonewall they will remember those boxes.peace
mr kipling makes good cakes!!!
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