Advice needed re compact 18Xb sub design |
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Ellwood
Registered User Joined: 26 February 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Posted: 31 July 2014 at 9:19am |
Hi im looking to short cut a project or iggy back someone else's design work. I have several Fane XB18 older colossus not neo magnets... im not even sure if to use them or sell them and buy Eminence kilomax 18s as im not struck on fanes after sales service!
id like to diy build 4 single 18 cabs not too big for transport but efficient and if possible to go down below 40hz to nearer where a low b on a bass guitar is... 31hz! I don't really want to use 2x18 as sometimes we would only want to or have room for 2 - 1x18s but on occasion would double up with 4 which I know would achieve lower frequency than just 2 cabs. Im just looking for the benefit of experience out there in achieving optimum efficiency, depth and portability. ?.Please Ellwood (we are a touring prog rock outfit with our own PA ... QSC RM5050x2, 2450x2, 1850HDx2 and so on) |
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John Ellwood Taylor
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Shortrope
Young Croc Joined: 08 July 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1232 |
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My Tinnitus is coming along nicely!!
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markie
Old Croc Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Sunny Liskeard. Status: Offline Points: 4570 |
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Here's a link to the cab plans Fane recommend for the XB. You'll see they go down to 35hz
http://www.fane-acoustics.com/downloads/Cabinets18inch200Lres.pdf I doubt whether too many on here would recommend changing them for kilomax.
Edited by markie - 31 July 2014 at 1:15pm |
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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Forget the Kilomax unless you just want to convert lots of amp power into heat!
Unfortunately the 18XB works best in reasonably large cabinets, hence the recommended Fane design is 200L. I've tried them in cabs as small as 150L and they don't sound bad but stick them in something 180-200L and you get their full potential. The suggestion of the B&C Sub18 design is a good one, probably ideal for what you need. Take 2 for small gigs, 4 for larger ones. No bracing shown on the plans but would benefit from some. |
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markie
Old Croc Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Sunny Liskeard. Status: Offline Points: 4570 |
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The B&C sub is 185 litres, I would've thought its better to go with a cab designed for the driver.
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If it's got wheels or tits it's gonna cost a fortune
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SMP
Young Croc Joined: 16 March 2013 Location: East London Status: Offline Points: 1226 |
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I see very few on here that start as you should from the driver seems most just stick anything in a "Box" strange to my mind. Of course it is possible to tune for the driver but seems most do not & just hope for the best |
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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There is rarely one 'correct' cabinet volume and tuning for a driver. Most drivers suitable for reflex cabinets will give good performance in a fairly wide range but with different trade-offs (sensitivity vs bass extension etc). After a while you tend to get a feel for what will work and what won't.
e.g. there are a lot of 18" bass reflex subs out there in the 150-200L range, most manufacturers have one. As a result, there are lots of loudspeakers which will also be happy in that kind of cab. In this case the choice is as much to do with how the cabinet will fit in the system. Nothing necessarily wrong with the Fane design but personally I prefer the style of the Sub18 and the large shelf port. Btw, IMO forget trying to hit 31Hz with any significant level, it's rarely worth the effort. Most of the energy from the B string appears at the second harmonic at 62Hz anyway.
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Xoc1
Registered User Joined: 15 October 2012 Location: Devon UK Status: Offline Points: 399 |
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The Fane recommended Cabinet at 200 litres seems to be ported to about 40 - 41 Hz Running the parameters in Hornresp seems to suggest a 4 order Hi-pass at about 32 Hz would be about right. Changing the volume down to 180 litres looses about 0.5db at 45hz. Screengrab of sim showing 200L input data and 200/180 litre response -180 is grey line Edit Dunno why the speakerplans website re sizes the pic so that it is hardly legible! Edited by Xoc1 - 01 August 2014 at 9:40pm |
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Ellwood
Registered User Joined: 26 February 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Just asking but why do you think the kilomax or say for instance a sigma creates more heat in the amplifier? Thank you
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John Ellwood Taylor
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markie
Old Croc Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Sunny Liskeard. Status: Offline Points: 4570 |
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It doesn't create heat into the amplifier. The energy from the amplifier is converted into sound, and any excess is given off as heat which usually ends up in the speaker magnet. This is why you should never move your speakers for at least 20 mins after a gig. The heat can soften the glue that holds the magnet in place, so if you move them whilst hot there's a far greater chance you'll shift the magnet and totally ruin the driver.
I presume the inference is that the Kilomax is less efficient than the Fane, thus gets hotter as more energy is converted to heat.
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