Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Plans > Other plans
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Are w bins any good for kicks?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Are w bins any good for kicks?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
Message
Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 02 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5172
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2015 at 8:08pm


Take a look at the photo of the measured frequency response of one of my W Bins I threw away years ago at the bottom of page two. Your box is struggling to make 100 Hz using a simulated response which, means the box is too small.

Best Regards,



Edited by Elliot Thompson - 08 June 2015 at 8:11pm
Elliot Thompson
Back to Top
PavelP View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 25 March 2011
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PavelP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2015 at 9:03pm
You mean midbass have to work lower? I want it to work up to 400-500Hz not 300Hz as yours. Is it possible for one horn cab 1x15" to work 60-500Hz? How big is yours?

Edited by PavelP - 08 June 2015 at 9:03pm
Back to Top
mini-mad View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 13 July 2012
Location: london
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2015 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by PavelP PavelP wrote:

You mean midbass have to work lower? I want it to work up to 400-500Hz not 300Hz as yours. Is it possible for one horn cab 1x15" to work 60-500Hz? How big is yours?

yes.
its called a reflex cab.
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
Back to Top
PavelP View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 25 March 2011
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PavelP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2015 at 9:31pm
Don't you see word 'horn'? )

Edited by PavelP - 08 June 2015 at 9:31pm
Back to Top
Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 02 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5172
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2015 at 10:43pm


Originally posted by PavelP PavelP wrote:

You mean midbass have to work lower? I want it to work up to 400-500Hz not 300Hz as yours. Is it possible for one horn cab 1x15" to work 60-500Hz? How big is yours?


As I mentioned in my previous replies, I threw away my last W Bin years ago. No one would use a W Bin as high as you are seeking for it is going to sound horrid. I would not even use them as high as 300 Hz. It appears you are not familiar with W Bins if you are trying to play 500 Hz out of box designed to play bass.

What you want is a straight horn that will enable you to play midrange and mid bass. No matter what you do, for a horn to play 60 Hz, the cabinet needs to be large. Asking one single horn box to play 60 Hz - 500 Hz is going to require a very large straight horn. If you are willing to accept a reflex to help extend the frequency down to 60 Hz, you can pursue the horn/reflex combination of the old Altec 816.

Best Regards,


Edited by Elliot Thompson - 08 June 2015 at 10:44pm
Elliot Thompson
Back to Top
_djk_ View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 23 November 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6002
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 2:39am
"No one would use a W Bin as high as you are seeking for it is going to sound horrid."
 
Depends on the dimensions in the bends, and how tight the bends are.
 
"Asking one single horn box to play 60 Hz - 500 Hz is going to require a very large straight horn."
 
Yes, and an exceptional woofer.
 
" If you are willing to accept a reflex to help extend the frequency down to 60 Hz, you can pursue the horn/reflex combination of the old Altec 816. "
 
Not horn loaded below 160hz or so.

djk
Back to Top
PavelP View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 25 March 2011
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PavelP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 9:07am
Thank you for the feedback. It's not exactly w-bin, but a pyramid like design band-pass horn with narrow throat of about 500cm2.
Back to Top
Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 02 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5172
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 12:09pm
You can change the name if you like however that follows a W Bin principal. If you think you can run such a box up to 500 Hz and expect it to sound good, the most I can tell you is to do it and let your ears be the final judge. Possibly I am a little more particular to midrange than you.

I don’t believe many are familiar with the complexity of frequencies that fall within the 300 – 600 Hz region. The ones who cannot get such frequencies to sound proper without muffle artefacts, will simply reduce those frequencies as much as they can get away with. The last thing you want is a W Bin to amplify such frequencies where all pronunciation is lost due to the vocals bouncing about in an enclosed chamber with not enough room to escape.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
Back to Top
Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 02 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5172
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2015 at 12:19pm



Originally posted by _djk_ _djk_ wrote:

"No one would use a W Bin as high as you are seeking for it is going to sound horrid."
 

Depends on the dimensions in the bends, and how tight the bends are.

 

"Asking one single horn box to play 60 Hz - 500 Hz is going to require a very large straight horn."

 

Yes, and an exceptional woofer.

 

" If you are willing to accept a reflex to help extend the frequency down to 60 Hz, you can pursue the horn/reflex combination of the old Altec 816. "

 

Not horn loaded below 160hz or so.





If PavlP chooses to use a large Straight horn (Bigger than the Altec 816) PavlP will have no problem achieving a significant amount of SPL below 160 Hz. The Altec 816 is a good starting point however, PavlP still needs to know what is the goal from a frequency perspective and build the proper size cabinet to get the job done.

Best Regards,




Edited by Elliot Thompson - 09 June 2015 at 12:22pm
Elliot Thompson
Back to Top
PavelP View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 25 March 2011
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PavelP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2015 at 10:27am
Hi, guys! Is it better? 1 and 4 units ground 2Pi.

I don't know how to make chambers bigger because of uncontrollable displacement growth. Now rear chamber is 28l and throat chamber is 16.5l vs 17/6 in previous version.
Here's the displacement of previous version vs todays. Hornresp displacement looks more alike real if divided by 1.4.


Edited by PavelP - 05 August 2015 at 10:30am
Back to Top
all bass View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 11 October 2012
Location: the Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1855
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote all bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2015 at 1:44pm
Good to see there has been some developments again.
Why do you want to make your rear chamber bigger? To get the cab to go lower in singles? In this case you might have to make your rear chamber vented.

Two remarks from my side:
1. Kickbins are usually not ground stacked, therefor the 2pi simulations are not really representative.
2. Would you mind sharing your Hornresp inputs so people can review your data and help to guide you towards improvement.
https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/
Back to Top
PavelP View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 25 March 2011
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PavelP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2015 at 8:54pm
In general i don't want this cab to go low, just 80-90Hz 18db/oct and up to 150-200Hz. I'm planning to use sub and kick overlapped near 60-70Hz to reach a good articulate mid-bass.
Some messages earlier Elliot told me, that w-bin or such a cabinet where speaker directed backwards, can't reproduce quality signal above 150-200Hz. I expected it could be so, and it wasn't the main aim. I just wanted to use this construction in other construction with 4" coil hf-driver, but i have an another idea about it. Besides, it's good for upper bass cab to have an ability to be used in stack of 2-4 units as bass, thus 50-60Hz from stack is desirable.
So it is a bass cab for big system and 2Pi simulation is used.
Here's 4Pi and input if somebody is interested.


Edited by PavelP - 06 August 2015 at 9:48pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.113 seconds.