Are w bins any good for kicks? |
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5172 |
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Take a look at the photo of the measured frequency response of one of my W Bins I threw away years ago at the bottom of page two. Your box is struggling to make 100 Hz using a simulated response which, means the box is too small. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 08 June 2015 at 8:11pm |
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Elliot Thompson
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PavelP
Registered User Joined: 25 March 2011 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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You mean midbass have to work lower? I want it to work up to 400-500Hz not 300Hz as yours. Is it possible for one horn cab 1x15" to work 60-500Hz? How big is yours?
Edited by PavelP - 08 June 2015 at 9:03pm |
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mini-mad
Old Croc Joined: 13 July 2012 Location: london Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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yes. its called a reflex cab. |
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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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PavelP
Registered User Joined: 25 March 2011 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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Don't you see word 'horn'? )
Edited by PavelP - 08 June 2015 at 9:31pm |
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5172 |
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As I mentioned in my previous replies, I threw away my last W Bin years ago. No one would use a W Bin as high as you are seeking for it is going to sound horrid. I would not even use them as high as 300 Hz. It appears you are not familiar with W Bins if you are trying to play 500 Hz out of box designed to play bass. What you want is a straight horn that will enable you to play midrange and mid bass. No matter what you do, for a horn to play 60 Hz, the cabinet needs to be large. Asking one single horn box to play 60 Hz - 500 Hz is going to require a very large straight horn. If you are willing to accept a reflex to help extend the frequency down to 60 Hz, you can pursue the horn/reflex combination of the old Altec 816. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 08 June 2015 at 10:44pm |
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Elliot Thompson
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_djk_
Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002 |
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"No one would use a W Bin as high as you are seeking for it is going to sound horrid."
Depends on the dimensions in the bends, and how tight the bends are.
"Asking one single horn box to play 60 Hz - 500 Hz is going to require a very large straight horn."
Yes, and an exceptional woofer.
" If you are willing to accept a reflex to help extend the frequency down to 60 Hz, you can pursue the horn/reflex combination of the old Altec 816. "
Not horn loaded below 160hz or so.
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djk
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PavelP
Registered User Joined: 25 March 2011 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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Thank you for the feedback. It's not exactly w-bin, but a pyramid like design band-pass horn with narrow throat of about 500cm2.
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5172 |
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You can change the name if you like however that follows a W Bin principal. If you think you can run such a box up to 500 Hz and expect it to sound good, the most I can tell you is to do it and let your ears be the final judge. Possibly I am a little more particular to midrange than you.
I don’t believe many are familiar with the complexity of frequencies that fall within the 300 – 600 Hz region. The ones who cannot get such frequencies to sound proper without muffle artefacts, will simply reduce those frequencies as much as they can get away with. The last thing you want is a W Bin to amplify such frequencies where all pronunciation is lost due to the vocals bouncing about in an enclosed chamber with not enough room to escape. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5172 |
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If PavlP chooses to use a large Straight horn (Bigger than the Altec 816) PavlP will have no problem achieving a significant amount of SPL below 160 Hz. The Altec 816 is a good starting point however, PavlP still needs to know what is the goal from a frequency perspective and build the proper size cabinet to get the job done. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 09 June 2015 at 12:22pm |
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Elliot Thompson
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PavelP
Registered User Joined: 25 March 2011 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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Hi, guys! Is it better? 1 and 4 units ground 2Pi.
I don't know how to make chambers bigger because of uncontrollable displacement growth. Now rear chamber is 28l and throat chamber is 16.5l vs 17/6 in previous version. Here's the displacement of previous version vs todays. Hornresp displacement looks more alike real if divided by 1.4. Edited by PavelP - 05 August 2015 at 10:30am |
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all bass
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2012 Location: the Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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Good to see there has been some developments again.
Why do you want to make your rear chamber bigger? To get the cab to go lower in singles? In this case you might have to make your rear chamber vented. Two remarks from my side: 1. Kickbins are usually not ground stacked, therefor the 2pi simulations are not really representative. 2. Would you mind sharing your Hornresp inputs so people can review your data and help to guide you towards improvement.
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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/
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PavelP
Registered User Joined: 25 March 2011 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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In general i don't want this cab to go low, just 80-90Hz 18db/oct and up to 150-200Hz. I'm planning to use sub and kick overlapped near 60-70Hz to reach a good articulate mid-bass.
Some messages earlier Elliot told me, that w-bin or such a cabinet where speaker directed backwards, can't reproduce quality signal above 150-200Hz. I expected it could be so, and it wasn't the main aim. I just wanted to use this construction in other construction with 4" coil hf-driver, but i have an another idea about it. Besides, it's good for upper bass cab to have an ability to be used in stack of 2-4 units as bass, thus 50-60Hz from stack is desirable. So it is a bass cab for big system and 2Pi simulation is used. Here's 4Pi and input if somebody is interested. Edited by PavelP - 06 August 2015 at 9:48pm |
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