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Guide to WinISD Pro and Hornresp

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jethrocker View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jethrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2007 at 10:11pm
Tried to search this up but can't seem to get the keywords right, though I know there is info here somewhere..*

When  modelling either multiple driver cabs, or stacks of single cabs, which values need to be changed to account. The program helpfile just tells us that all horn parameters are shared by the two drivers. I assume that means that Vtc, Vrc, throat size (s1), mouth size, Atc, are all shared between the two drivers. So, if i change the driver value to 2, I would have to double all those values to see results of a double cab rather than a single.

Some of the other values have got me confused. the length I would assume to be shared between the two drivers, not virtually doubled...but I seem to remember reading something to the contrary so need to be sure.

Eg, (input in volts) when calculating volts from watts in a design with two 8 ohm drivers in parallel (entered in the multiple driver pop-up), do I enter the combined power handling and load impedance into the voltage calculator window, or does hornresponse take account of this when multiople drivers are selected?

Finally (for now) Is the diaphragm displacement shown in a multiple driver design shared between the drivers does each driver have the displacement shown in the plot?





*disclaimer
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mobiele eenheid View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2007 at 4:28pm
Quote I assume that means that Vtc, Vrc, throat size (s1), mouth size, Atc, are all shared between the two drivers. So, if i change the driver value to 2, I would have to double all those values to see results of a double cab rather than a single.
Correct.
 
Quote the length I would assume to be shared between the two drivers, not virtually doubled...but I seem to remember reading something to the contrary so need to be sure.
True, the horn length can stay the same for 1 or 2 drivers.
 
In reality you can make the horn length shorter for each driver (incluiding horn parameters) that you add. But as we're talking 1 or 2 drivers here, the difference is to small to be fund off.
Think there's something about it in the FAQ's.
 
2,83 V means one Watt dissipated into an 8 ohm load (ie one speaker), it also means 2 Watt dissipated into a 4 ohm load (ie two speakers parallel). So if you would enter the combined powerhandling and load impedance into the voltage calculator the number in the tab wouldn't change. 
 
Each driver has the displacement shown in the plot.
 
wKr Johan
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jethrocker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jethrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2007 at 5:43pm
Many thanks.. i can get to it now feeling more certain that I'm heading in the right direction..
 
With regard to the voltage calculations.. If the number doesn't change then surely that means that the two drivers are recieving the same power as the one driver was?? Surely the power fed to twio drivers must be double that fed to one driver...sure I'm missing something but be good to get my head round it properly.
 
Faqs..couldn't find any in Hornresponse..did you mean here on speakerplans??
 
One last point..on reading the help file yet again I noticed the "multiple speaker" tool listed for plotting arrays of individual horns. Mty version of hornresponse doesn't actually have this option in the tools menu though..why not, I got version 14, too old??
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mobiele eenheid View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2007 at 3:30pm
Quote With regard to the voltage calculations.. If the number doesn't change then surely that means that the two drivers are recieving the same power as the one driver was?? Surely the power fed to twio drivers must be double that fed to one driver...sure I'm missing something but be good to get my head round it properly.
You're still thinking in Watts.
 
However you're not working with Watts, you're working with voltage now, which means different rules apply.
 
2,83 V = 1 W into 8 Ohm = 2 W into 4 Ohm = 4 W into 2 Ohm, etc
2,00 V = 1 W into 4 Ohm = 2 W into 2 Ohm...
 
If you want to get the hang of it you should just use the calculator for several minutes..you'll get there.
 
Quote Faqs..couldn't find any in Hornresponse..did you mean here on speakerplans??
Yup..the latter.
 
Quote One last point..on reading the help file yet again I noticed the "multiple speaker" tool listed for plotting arrays of individual horns. Mty version of hornresponse doesn't actually have this option in the tools menu though..why not, I got version 14, too old??
Works only at SPL-plot (window 4).
 
Wkr Johan
 
 
 
 


Edited by mobiele eenheid - 25 May 2007 at 3:31pm
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jethrocker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jethrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2007 at 7:05pm
yep..thanks mobiele.. i actually got my head round the watt/volt issue shortly after writing the post, didn't even need the calculator to play with :)
 
Also discovered that the multiple speakers option is window 4 only, and also that it only works for single section Hyp-Ex horns. Bit of a sod that as it's useful to be able to check arrayed response and difficult to get desired response with single section horn.
 
Really is addictive playing with the program, and has helped me to better understanding in a short time. Much easier to learn when you can experiemnt and see the results than just wrestling in your head with theory and formulae..
 
If you don't mind..a couple more queries that came up from last nights fiddling..
What is a sensible figure for Rg (amp output R) if I don't know what amp I'll be using. I'm confused on this as I always assumed amp outputs to be very low impedance but I can't input below 0.1ohm..
Also, any suggestions of getting rid of power dip above lower x-point in a 70-200 Hz horn?? Can't seem to flatten it without getting a peak at x-over, bigger rear chamber volume just eats up x-max, in fact I'm finding that all attempts so far result in a horn with very small chamber to stay within displacement limits.. (<22L)
 
I'm actually surprised that with many parameters it takes quite radical changes to have any considerable effect overall. Fine tuning the curve seems to be hard to achieve..
 
Will have a read of the FAQs re: hornlength, and see what else there is.
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mobiele eenheid View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2007 at 8:41pm
Quote What is a sensible figure for Rg (amp output R) if I don't know what amp I'll be using. I'm confused on this as I always assumed amp outputs to be very low impedance but I can't input below 0.1ohm
This will most likely include the resistance from the cables (from amps to speakers) too. Last couple of weeks there was a good sum-up-topic about it, on here....somewhere.
 
Quote Also, any suggestions of getting rid of power dip above lower x-point in a 70-200 Hz horn?? Can't seem to flatten it without getting a peak at x-over, bigger rear chamber volume just eats up x-max, in fact I'm finding that all attempts so far result in a horn with very small chamber to stay within displacement limits.. (<22L)
Heard to say, not knowing what driver/size/concept/etc, except general things I assume you already know (like learning from similair designs and a small rear chamber ;)
 
Wkr Johan


Edited by mobiele eenheid - 30 May 2007 at 8:42pm
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jethrocker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jethrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2007 at 9:54pm
thanks..will try to search up that info, though my faith in the forum search function gets weaker by the day..

the kick horn model is going better, trying a different driver which seems to suit better..
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mobiele eenheid View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2007 at 3:04pm
About the search, you just have to trick it into the thing, you really want it to do, just like a PC or a Mac for that matter
 
Cable from amp to speakers (10 mtr, 2,5 mm^2 on average) ~ 0,3 Ohm.
Amp ~ 0,04 Ohm.
 
Wkr Johan
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jethrocker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jethrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2007 at 5:39pm
Thanks mobiele..so i'll go around 0.3-.4 on the rg value.. 
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mhtplsh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhtplsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2007 at 6:32am
after requierd inputs r filled in hornresp, when i press calculate,  i got the window with following message
" Do you want to mask throat chamber & rear chamber resonances?"

what to do next?  
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mobiele eenheid View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2007 at 12:16pm
Click yes, no or that other option
 
Seriously tho, page 2, first post about LRC, second post (from me), Window 1 t/m 7, Options.
 
Wkr Johan
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Jake_Fielder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake_Fielder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2008 at 5:57pm
BUMP!
 
Who un-stickyed this?
Its really helpful
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