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Has anyone modeled the punisher with Hornresp
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Mircea Bartic View Drop Down
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Points: 2589 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mircea Bartic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2007 at 7:33am
delta12 is bad  has a spiky plot as lab12, and I can be pretty sure the cone will rip in the punisher (it far to thin)



above, there-s the plot with definimax (with reduced rear chamber)

it could work, but I am not sure it it will whitstand the huge forces acting on the cone
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Points: 174 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kpippen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2007 at 2:33pm
Hello Bartic,
 
Thank you so very much for plotting the Definimax for me!...
 
Kevin
 
 
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Points: 174 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kpippen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2007 at 7:18pm

Hello Everyone,

 

As we all know the Punisher cabinet was designed by Walt for the Ciare 12.00SW... Because of this fact the Ciare 12.00SW will most likely always be the superior and choice driver for the Punisher... It has also been proven by Bartic Mircea that the P Audio SD12 works as an excellent substitute... The only draw-back I see with using either of these drivers in the US is their cost…. In the states the Ciare 12.00SW cost $239.00 and the P Audio SD12 cost $261.00… I can only speculate that some of the cost(s) are directly linked to the import duties for these drivers… I have seen prices on the LAB12 in the US for considerably less than Europe, and I have seen prices on the Ciare in Europe that are considerably less than in the US… Anyways,… I believe that I may have found a suitable driver in the US for the Punisher… This driver was originally manufactured for very high SPL applications and is not currently produced (it has been discontinued)… I have contacted the manufacturer and they have agreed to build me two samples for testing… Once I have received the samples I will begin testing them for use in the Punisher… Thanks to the help of Mr. Bartic Mircea and Mr. David McBean I have been able plot some preliminary characteristic and performance estimates of this driver for use in the Punisher… I would like to share this with you because I think this driver shows potential… Once I have received the samples I will post some pictures… If anyone has the original Punisher plans I would greatly appreciate if they would share them with me… I think this driver might fit and perform with the original design...                 

 

Here are the characteristic and T/S parameters that I have right now:

 

Power Handling: 650 Watts RMS

Frequency Response: 35 - 2.5k Hz

Voice Coil Diameter: 4in. (100mm)

Nominal Impedance: 8-ohms

Magnet Structure: 200 oz. 

 

RE: 5.24 Ohms

LE: 1.39 mH

QM: 8.08

QES: 0.32

QTS: 0.30

Xmax: 4.80

BL: 17.43Tm

FS: 39.1 Hz

Mms: 74.6 grams

Cms: 0.222 mm/N

Rms: 2.271 Nsec/m

Vas: 88.4 liters

SD: 532.4 cm^2

EBP: 123.6

SPL 94.1 dB 1W-1m 

 

Here are the input parameters I used for plotting as suggested:
 
 
 
Here are the plotted results for SPL response:

I would also like to mention that the participants of this forum are wonderful people, and I really do appreciate the help and advise that I have received here!...
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Gramps View Drop Down
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How about Mykeys new driver that is specially designed for the Punisher? Not sure about how much it would cost to get them over to the States, but may be worth looking into as they seem to be very capable drivers.
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Hello Gramps,
 
I have been communicating with MyKey via PM and I'm awaiting info on his new driver... The jury will be out on the driver I found until I receive the sample units and have tested it in the punisher with Smaart...
 
Thank you for posting!
 
Kevin 
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Contour View Drop Down
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Hello,
 
I see the moving mass is low, this probably means a thin cone. The big question will be if this driver can stand the force acting on the cone when placed in the Punisher horn. The Punisher has a quite high compression factor. The Ciare 12.00SW has a very thick (almost 5mm) cone so it can withstand this pressure, but so will this driver?
 
Plotted reponse looks good by the way. The 4.8 x-max figure is that in [mm]? If that is the case that is not so good, the Ciare 12.00SW has 11.5mm one way lineair, that would mean about 7.5dB more maximum output for the Ciare driver...
 
Best regards,
 
Walt


Edited by Contour - 10 July 2007 at 8:15pm
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Hello Walt,
 
Thank you for posting!... Yes the Xmax is 4.80mm...but until I see the driver and it's cone structure I can't address it...  I'm probably entirely wrong but I think the Xmax is 5.0mm on the SD12... The manufacturer will ship me the samples in about two weeks... I have already discussed some possible modifications with them...  
 
Thanks!
 
Kevin
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mobiele eenheid View Drop Down
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The mathematical Xmax on the SD-12 is 5 mm [ (Hvc - Hag)/2 ] but the usable excursion might be up to 8 or 9 mm [ (Hvc - Hag)/2 + 1/4 Hag ] as is commonly used for most drivers.
The Ciare states the mathematical Xmax (+ 1/4 Hag would probably be beyond Xmech anyway).
 
Wkr Johan
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Points: 174 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kpippen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2007 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by mobiele eenheid mobiele eenheid wrote:

The mathematical Xmax on the SD-12 is 5 mm [ (Hvc - Hag)/2 ] but the usable excursion might be up to 8 or 9 mm [ (Hvc - Hag)/2 + 1/4 Hag ] as is commonly used for most drivers.
The Ciare states the mathematical Xmax (+ 1/4 Hag would probably be beyond Xmech anyway).
 
Wkr Johan
Hello mobiele eenheid,
 
Thank you for posting! Unfortunately I have only been able to communicate with a sales person in regards to the samples because the engineer for this product is on vacation until next Monday 7/16. I should be able to get more details with concerns addressed next week.
 
Does anyone have a copy the original plans they could share with me?...
 
Thank you!
 
Kevin   
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Points: 1563 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2007 at 11:54am
The original plans are posted on speakerstore.nl (constructions/constructies). Prices on the Lab12 and Ciare can be found under products (in euro) which can be roughly translated to the price you mentioned earlier in US $.
 
Wkr Johan
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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I think you should arrange a purchase of drivers from Mykey.

It will be cheaper than Ciare/P-audio.

And we will have a first hand user opinion on Mykeys driver :-)
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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Points: 174 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kpippen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2007 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by mobiele eenheid mobiele eenheid wrote:

The original plans are posted on speakerstore.nl (constructions/constructies). Prices on the Lab12 and Ciare can be found under products (in euro) which can be roughly translated to the price you mentioned earlier in US $.
 
Wkr Johan
Hello mobiele eenheid,
 
I checked but cannot find them (Mark I design for Ciare 12.00SW 2004)... Can you PM me a link?...
 
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

I think you should arrange a purchase of drivers from Mykey.

It will be cheaper than Ciare/P-audio.

And we will have a first hand user opinion on Mykeys driver :-)
Hello MarjanM,
 
I am very interested in Mykey's driver and I'm still waiting for him to send me the info...
 
Thanks! 
 
Kevin 
 
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