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Haze Caravelle (barn find!)

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Robbo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2020 at 8:54am
Word of warning about the HH Pro 200s---We used to sell these in our shops back in the 70s and due to the weight of the cabinet the strap handles break very easily if the cabinet is not picked up in a certain way.
Never try to pick up the cabinet using the handles when it is standing upright as this can cause the inner metal strap part of the handle to tear across gradually bit by bit and eventually break completely(usually when carrying up a flight of stairs or fire escape)
The way to safely pick up is to always lay the cabinet on its side with the handles now on top and then pick up in this plane---Even doing it this way will only prolong the life of the handles as those cabinets are so bloody heavy and really deserve a bucket handle on each side.
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vital spark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vital spark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2020 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

It looks brilliant! 

What does it sound like?

Hooked up direct to my home cinema (decent gear but i'm no audiophile) pre amplification and the TT's sound almost as good as my Thorens TD166mkII. very enjoyable!

Through the amps on the console using the HH's the treble/mid needs fixing. What i havent done yet is to replace x over caps, and testing them last night both are duffers, so lets see what some fresh caps sounds like. seems odd that the tweeters are run through an inductor and cap, which suggests more of a mid range setting, but both are identical and look untouched from new. 

I know the HH's aren't the best in the world, but even with dodgy crossovers, the majority of music sounds good - and loud as hell in my front room!. Vocals can be very harsh and tinny depending on the track, but given the readings off the x-over caps, i'm confident it'll significantly improve. I was also advised by  the guy who refurbed my speakers to avoid refitting the alu voice caps on the drivers which might help the sound a bit.

The tone controls on the console aren't the greatest either. likely the design, or possibly my lack of understanding of electronics and what could be causing it (i did replace the pots like for like) but they seem to work in a strange way where for example reducing bass just increases mid and treble. Treble control is fine, but adjusting mid range is a mixed bag depending on where treble and bass are set. But sweet spots can be found :) and part of the fun of playing with 40 year old gear.

Also cant praise the help received on this forum enough. very helpful and knowledgeable.

and thanks for the comments :)

Al 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vital spark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2020 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

Word of warning about the HH Pro 200s---We used to sell these in our shops back in the 70s and due to the weight of the cabinet the strap handles break very easily if the cabinet is not picked up in a certain way.
Never try to pick up the cabinet using the handles when it is standing upright as this can cause the inner metal strap part of the handle to tear across gradually bit by bit and eventually break completely(usually when carrying up a flight of stairs or fire escape)
The way to safely pick up is to always lay the cabinet on its side with the handles now on top and then pick up in this plane---Even doing it this way will only prolong the life of the handles as those cabinets are so bloody heavy and really deserve a bucket handle on each side.

couldn't agree more. i have to be very careful with my shiny new handles, and i replaced most of the securing nuts and made as secure as possible, but like you say, even this isn't good enough. I've been putting them on their sides as suggested before lifting.
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vital spark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vital spark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2020 at 5:56pm
A few more pics. Din upgrade to RCA :)

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colint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2020 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by vital spark vital spark wrote:

Hi, it’s been a while!  

Posting since it’s been a while and the old girl has been pulled out of storage for a play.

Since last time I learned an awful lot about this thing and basic audio electronics in general. Aside from the grounding issues which are completely resolved, I found the same replacement pots on farnell but with metric shafts. It was very easy to open up the pots and swap over.

I also found that most of the sound issues was caused by the op amps, so I’ve replaced around 5 or 6 in total. 

The amps, console, all bells and whistles work great, and through patience i've snapped up some turntables and got 2 great working decks. I’ve also got a 3rd deck I’ve refurbed (same TT) and refurbed that too with fully working auto replay etc.

Also recovered the console with faux leather which looks far more in keeping with the period and not so cheap looking.

Also picked up a pair of hh pro200’s and have fully refurbed them. Drivers were knackered, and had all 4 re-coned professionally (ouch!!). Tweeters repaired and cabinets tidied up incl new handles. 

Anyway, away to post up some pics...

Hi, Who reconed the drivers and what repairs were done to the tweeters?
Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vital spark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2020 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by colint colint wrote:


Hi, Who reconed the drivers and what repairs were done to the tweeters?

Howdy, RJM Loudspeakers did the recones. seemed incredibly knowledgeable and cant fault the workman ship, they sound great also.

with the tweeter they weren't so professionally repaired. i stripped them down and found the coils broken/blown just as the enter the coils themselves, so i unwound 1 turn on the coil and re terminated. 
Obviously there will be compromises doing this, but they now work. DC resistance seems to be in the zone also.

Al
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colint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2020 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by vital spark vital spark wrote:

Originally posted by colint colint wrote:


Hi, Who reconed the drivers and what repairs were done to the tweeters?

Howdy, RJM Loudspeakers did the recones. seemed incredibly knowledgeable and cant fault the workman ship, they sound great also.

with the tweeter they weren't so professionally repaired. i stripped them down and found the coils broken/blown just as the enter the coils themselves, so i unwound 1 turn on the coil and re terminated. 
Obviously there will be compromises doing this, but they now work. DC resistance seems to be in the zone also.

Al

Cool thank you Cool 

Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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bob4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2020 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by vital spark vital spark wrote:


so i unwound 1 turn on the coil and re terminated. 
Obviously there will be compromises doing this, but they now work. DC resistance seems to be in the zone also.

ClapClapClapClap

Now that is amazing!!!!!!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vital spark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2020 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

Originally posted by vital spark vital spark wrote:


so i unwound 1 turn on the coil and re terminated. 
Obviously there will be compromises doing this, but they now work. DC resistance seems to be in the zone also.

ClapClapClapClap

Now that is amazing!!!!!!! 

I would say more lucky than anything Big smile. the broken coils on both were on the top layer and the wire broken just as it enters the coil, so i figured it was easy enough to unwind a turn and start again. 

they are incredibly fiddly, and hopeless without those illuminated magnifying glasses, and a good soldering station. a bit of patience and they weren't too bad to repair. the worst bit is trying to get a solid solder joint on varnished wire thats not much thicker than a human hair. that took a few attempts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madboffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2020 at 10:10pm
Congratulations on repairing those.

The *really* fiddly job is doing the ones that use flat aluminium wire. Special solder and a fancy magnifier, and after all the messing about the chances of success still aren't great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vital spark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2020 at 11:48am
x-over caps now replaced, and they are a much cleaner sound and a huge improvement, but they are still very bright. upper mid range can be a bit overpowering on some tracks, even with the tone controls on zero. not sure if i still have a problem, or if this is the nature of these or any PA speaker? 

Not sure if any modifications could be done to the tone controls or x-overs to improve further?

maybe i just need to chill out with the volume. lowed mid-bass sound excellent and louder than a loud thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2020 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by vital spark vital spark wrote:

x-over caps now replaced, and they are a much cleaner sound and a huge improvement, but they are still very bright. upper mid range can be a bit overpowering on some tracks, even with the tone controls on zero. not sure if i still have a problem, or if this is the nature of these or any PA speaker? 

Not sure if any modifications could be done to the tone controls or x-overs to improve further?



 I'm not that familiar with those HH speakers but I wonder if the crossover point (low pass) on the woofers is too high and they're beaming at certain frequencies, do the speakers sound the same when hooked up to another amp? 
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