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HD15 Driver Sims

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ceharden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2005 at 6:45am
I don't have a response plot handy but I tried the L15P300 in a similar horn simulation and they looked pretty good.  I'd say they'd be fine in the HD15.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loophole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2005 at 11:25am
cheers dave, this is a great resource!
have you modelled the horn 'straight-up' or have you somehow compensated for the resonant component of the cabinet? i'd be very interested to know how if so - ive always felt an ordinary horn expansion model wont quite capture the magic of the bin. theyre just that bit louder than they reasonably should be innit? ;)

so what are people's opinions?
whats the new best bet when it comes to driving everyone's favourite short horn?
there's some 'unknowns' in amongst that lot that look very promising. interesting stuff

although it has to be said, one of the most important considerations for a bin with the impulse of an hd has to be the responsiveness of the driver, and this doesnt show up on the plot. some of those fanes look like they should sound great, but in practice they'll end up sounding all mushy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Slater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2005 at 2:01pm

interesting points loophole maybe i should've put the EBP by each driver as well

anyways the simulation is based around the HD215 that Dom and i use

when i did the plan for that box i took the original measurements for the curve and drew 18mm flat panels over the top to approximate it

this created a series of conical expansions which i have then used the dimensions of to create this model

i've also allowed for the baton around the mouth

it'll never be identical but side by side i think it's close enough to use

Rogs Plot Kappa 15LF

 

Horn Response Sim Kappa 15LF



Edited by dave - 17 November 2005 at 2:30pm
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loophole View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loophole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2005 at 7:01pm
i don't use a batten round the mouth, which is one reason i get a bit more sub than most people seem to with their hds. im also very into sneeky corner loading, stabbing other peoples drivers up with a screwdriver and other such dirty tricks :D

when you approximated the curve, did you plan the new panels so the edges where they meet are on the circumference of the curve, or so that the midpoints of the panels are on the circumference. or somewhere in between?
it makes quite a difference, because the first will decrease RC volume and widen the horn path, while the other will do the opposite. i should really start to build mitred boxes, its sooo much less effort.

ive always wondered what would happen if you made an hd with a conventional expansion instead of a radiused curve. could never tell whether it was laziness on rog's part to design it like that, or a genius trick that the rest of us dont know about - neither would surprise me :P

i wonder whether rog's plot also ignores the bandpass magic factor. maybe i'm biased but ive always loved hybrids, im sure theres something going on that hornresp can't account for...

Edited by loophole - 17 November 2005 at 7:04pm
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Dave Slater View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Slater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2005 at 5:54am

on the horn side the curve meets the panels at roughly the midpoints

i tried the other way but felt it didn't approximate it well enough

to be honest the difference is minimal we're talking a couple of mm at most which works out to the sim being about 10cm2 smaller in area at the endpoints of the panels

given the fact that horn response only allows 4 sections i doubt very much you'd be able to get it any better certainly you'd be hard pushed to notice the difference in the sim if you did in some way allow for those 10cm2

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2005 at 8:15am

Even given that there may be funny room modes going on with my plots, i think the bandpass element adds quite a lot to the sound.  The sims show a peaky response with my measurements a lot flatter and lower before rolling off.  I did a number of different measurements with the mic at different positions before settling on the one i did but i can say that the rest were all fairly typical of what you see there.

I can also say that the first time i heard 8 of Dom's together it was whilst setting up a DnB night and they were certainly belting out the bottom end (whether i was really hearing the fundamental is cause for discussion tho..) so i'd say that his plots for multiple cabs also doesn't necessarily represent whats going on.

I'm running 6 next saturday (plus 2 double 18 subs) in the basement bar at the Stratford Rex (if anyone knows the room).  I'm expecting it to be fairly intense in that space, especially as the stack only goes under the roof with 20mm to spare.  Anything i should consider with reflections off the roof with the top end horns that close?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datguyjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2005 at 8:46pm
If it isn't to much trouble could someone model the Eminence Delta 15LF in the HD15 box? I know there are atleast 2 people who are wondering how it would do.
Thanx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotnation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2006 at 9:57pm
ok i have two drivers for you: the orion 15 inch sub in the H2 series, by orion audio, and the 15 inch madison executioner speaker.  those two have the highest xmax ive ever seen, very much worth simulating (ps i hate troubling people for this sorta thing, im curious what program you use so i coudl do it myself...)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkeypuzzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 January 2006 at 8:14pm
hiya, thanks loads for this, its real good of you, i've got four loaded with RCF 15L600's. I think the 800's are the same but just higher power but not sure. i can't find t + s for them, any chance you got and can put through and get me a graph?

cheers, matt p
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purplepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2006 at 4:48pm
please , can you simulate eminence kappa PRO 15 LF ?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adambomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2006 at 6:46pm
Hi,
 
I have been looking around for Drivers for my next build  - 8 HD15s..
 
I have come accross the Celestion FTR15-4080FD and FTR15-4080HD for a good price and I was wondering if either of thease would be suitable for the HD15...
 
I have also had a go at working this out in HornResp but it baffled me..
 
The TS for the Drivers are :
 
FTR15-4080HD
Sd (m2/in2) 0.086/132.57
D (m/in) 0.33/12.99
Fs (Hz) 32
Mmt (g/oz) 137.15/4.84
Mmd (g/oz) 123.00/4.34
Qms 7.10
Qes 0.32
Qts 0.30
Re (Ω) 5.80
Vas (lt/ft3) 181.0/6.39
BI (Tm) 22.80
Cms (mm/N) 0.18
Rms (kg/s) 3.98
Le (mH) 1.09
 
and
 
FTR15-4080FD
 
Sd (m2/in2) 0.086/132.57
D (m/in) 0.33/12.99
Fs (Hz) 32
Mmt (g/oz) 126.39/4.46
Mmd (g/oz) 112.24/3.96
Qms 7.20
Qes 0.24
Qts 0.23
Re (Ω) 5.40
Vas (lt/ft3) 203.0/7.17
BI (Tm) 23.90
Cms (mm/N) 0.20
Rms (kg/s) 3.56
Le (mH) 0.85
 
Any chance anyone could do a sim???
 
Cheers,
 
Adam.
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adambomb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adambomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2006 at 6:52pm
Bit More on the FTR15-4080FD
 
Nominal diameter (mm/in) 381/15
Power Rating (AES, W rms) 1000
Nominal impedance (Ω) 8
Voice coil diameter (mm/in) 100/4
Magnet type Ceramic
Chassis type Cast aluminium
Sensitivity (dB) 97
Frequency range (Hz) 35-2500
Coil material Round copper
Former material Round copper
Cone material Glass loaded paper with weather resistant impregnation
Surround material Cloth-sealed
Suspension Double
Xmax (mm/in) 6.0/0.24
Gap depth (mm/in) 10.0/0.39
Voice coil winding width (mm/in) 22.0/0.87
Small Signal Parameters
Sd (m2/in2) 0.086/132.57
D (m/in) 0.33/12.99
Fs (Hz) 32
Mmt (g/oz) 126.39/4.46
Mmd (g/oz) 112.24/3.96
Qms 7.20
Qes 0.24
Qts 0.23
Re (Ω) 5.40
Vas (lt/ft3) 203.0/7.17
BI (Tm) 23.90
Cms (mm/N) 0.20
Rms (kg/s) 3.56
Le (mH) 0.85
Mounting Information
Overall diameter (mm/in) 385/15.16
Overall depth (mm/in) 170/6.69
Cut-out diameter (mm/in) 351/13.82
Mounting slot dimensions (mm/in) 7 x 10/0.28 x 0.39
Number of mounting slots 8
Mounting slot PCD range (mm/in) 365-375/14.37-14.76
Unit weight (kg/lb) 9.5/20.9
 
and the FTR15-4080HD
 
General specifications
Nominal diameter (mm/in) 381/15
Power Rating (AES, W rms) 1000
Nominal impedance (Ω) 8
Voice coil diameter (mm/in) 100/4
Magnet type Ceramic
Chassis type Cast aluminium
Sensitivity (dB) 94
Frequency range (Hz) 35-2500
Coil material Round copper
Former material Round copper
Cone material Glass loaded paper with weather resistant impregnation
Surround material Cloth-sealed
Suspension Double
Xmax (mm/in) 7.75/0.31
Gap depth (mm/in) 9.5/0.37
Voice coil winding width (mm/in) 25.0/0.98
Small Signal Parameters
Sd (m2/in2) 0.086/132.57
D (m/in) 0.33/12.99
Fs (Hz) 32
Mmt (g/oz) 137.15/4.84
Mmd (g/oz) 123.00/4.34
Qms 7.10
Qes 0.32
Qts 0.30
Re (Ω) 5.80
Vas (lt/ft3) 181.0/6.39
BI (Tm) 22.80
Cms (mm/N) 0.18
Rms (kg/s) 3.98
Le (mH) 1.09
Mounting Information
Overall diameter (mm/in) 385/15.16
Overall depth (mm/in) 173/6.81
Cut-out diameter (mm/in) 351/13.82
Mounting slot dimensions (mm/in) 7 x 10/0.28 x 0.39
Number of mounting slots 8
Mounting slot PCD range (mm/in) 365-375/14.37-14.76
Unit weight (kg/lb) 9.5/20.9
Packed Dimensions and Weight
Single pack size W x D x H (mm/in) 435 x 435 x 200/17.1 x 17.1 x 7.9
Single pack weight (kg/lb) 10.8/23.8
Multipack (36) size W x D x H (mm/in) 1200 x 1000 x 980/47.2 x 39.4 x 38.6
Multipack (36) weight (kg/lb) 390/860

Cheers,
Adam.
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