Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Newbie Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - HD15+something+BMS4590
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

HD15+something+BMS4590

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Cheekybox View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 04 October 2014
Location: Smoke
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheekybox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HD15+something+BMS4590
    Posted: 12 January 2018 at 5:02pm
I'm looking to change our mid range on our rig. For reasons we can't explain the mids aren't sounding right to our ears. 

At the moment we have 4 ported mid boxes playing 180-500/800hz. They sit on 2 hd15s. 

I am considering replacing the current mids with a single 15" ported horn, im not sure what that might be loaded with. I will be getting them to play at the same freq range.  

Above the mids we've got a 4590 tractrix horn. 

Would the ported mid horn be an upgrade?

Many thanks for any advice!


Edited by Cheekybox - 12 January 2018 at 5:52pm
Back to Top
vertx View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 14 March 2012
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote vertx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2018 at 12:56am
My 4 ported 12" mids running a similar freq range also did not sound right until phase/time aligned at the crossover freqs. There were cancellations of up to 12db at crossover. 

Is your mid range phase aligned?
https://www.facebook.com/translatesoundaus/
Back to Top
Cheekybox View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 04 October 2014
Location: Smoke
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheekybox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2018 at 3:40am
Heck, you got me. 

I thought maybe we didn't need to because they all stack in line. Embarrassed

Wait, actually thats the delays I was thinking of. Phase alignment, is that similar to adjusting the delays? Tbh I have no idea how to adjust this. 

Translate Sound likes ace. Very slick!

I saw your post from a couple years ago and someone suggested upgrading your PD drivers to match your bms. That got me thinking about our mid drivers. Fane Sovereign between pd1852 and the bms. Are they out of place do you think?

Cheers!
Back to Top
vertx View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 14 March 2012
Location: Sydney
Status: Offline
Points: 325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote vertx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2018 at 6:27am
Originally posted by Cheekybox Cheekybox wrote:

Heck, you got me. 

I thought maybe we didn't need to because they all stack in line. Embarrassed

Wait, actually thats the delays I was thinking of. Phase alignment, is that similar to adjusting the delays? Tbh I have no idea how to adjust this. 

Translate Sound likes ace. Very slick!

I saw your post from a couple years ago and someone suggested upgrading your PD drivers to match your bms. That got me thinking about our mid drivers. Fane Sovereign between pd1852 and the bms. Are they out of place do you think?

Cheers!


I'm not sure of the best way to describe it but to align phase you may need to use a combination of delay and polarity flipping/filter types to match the cabinets at the acoustic crossover point. The same driver will have different phase in a different cabinet and also at different axis/points.

The first time around I didn't have any knowledge of what to do or equipment to use to phase align I linked up with some friends at a local production/hire place who did the alignment and showed me the basics.

After that I got a measurement mic and REW and used it every day on all types of speakers to try and learn a bit more for myself.

We have PD186 on subs, Fane Colossus 12mb on lowmids, and the BMS midhighs. Once phase aligned there was more kick present in the lower crossover region, and no more gap in the lower vocal frequencies in the crossover between the lowmids and midhighs.

We also found our black 2x18" (15mm hoop pine) subs had different phase/delay settings than our 2x18" wooden subs (18mm marine plywood) as the enclosure volumes was slightly different.
https://www.facebook.com/translatesoundaus/
Back to Top
Cheekybox View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 04 October 2014
Location: Smoke
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheekybox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2018 at 12:03pm
Thanks a lot for your help! I will be having a crack at it soon. 

I wonder, are there any delay-distance data sheets available for different speaker combinations? I've never seen any but i guess there might be something out there.


Back to Top
Jo bg View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 08 March 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2018 at 12:33pm
These datasheet could work only for identical speakers with same drivers stacked the same way and with the same crossover settings and relative volume between bands... That is commercial cabs.
With diy cabs there are so many variables that you have to find out your very own delay and phase alignment
Back to Top
Jo bg View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 08 March 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2018 at 12:36pm
The Demo of smaart needs some study to begin with but with its realtime phase graph lets you see and understand what happens while you adjust things, I find rew easier to use but slower to get results with...
Back to Top
Cheekybox View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 04 October 2014
Location: Smoke
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cheekybox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2018 at 12:51pm
Cheers, Jo bg. 

Your point about the difficulty of compiling a data-sheet makes sense. I thought i'd read somewhere 70cm hd15 to reflex 12" was a good starting point for tweaking by ear. 

I'm going to have to spend some time getting to know smaart or rew i guess. 

It prob sounds a bit lazy to some me asking for a data-sheet to avoid doing the fiddly bits myself but its as much to do with not having anywhere to set up and test as it is not knowing what i'm doing or not wanting to learn myself. It's not really appropriate before a show, and there's never enough time anyway with us. Munters on the dance floor before its all plugged in etc. 

London really could do with some kind of cooperative DIY rig testing unit, run and managed by DIY builders, for DIY builders. LOL


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.