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Heat problems!?

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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2013 at 9:17am
As long as you can get machining accuracy, contact from the plate to driver wouldn't be such a problem. Aluminium Plates on the cab have been done, and it just leaves the various ways of making contact with the speaker. A bit of Engineering should do it. Efficient heat transfer would also depend on the size of the contact area being used on the speaker. Even an Aluminium disc hovering over the speaker connected to a rod that is connected to the face plate would have an effect, but good contact to the speaker would be the best.
An Aluminium Strap like a giant Jubilee Clip could also be placed around the Magnet and then connected to the plate. These methods are easy to apply with a Ceramic Magnet Speaker, but what about Neo speakers. Some of the larger models have the Magnets enclosed in metal cases, which probably don't touch the case, so heat sinking would be more difficult. Just a few thoughts.


Edited by TONY.A.S.S. - 19 December 2013 at 9:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2013 at 3:52pm
I intended in thought something a little more active, not passive. ie refrigerated cooling. Which would be far more aggressive type of cooling it would be possible to use the signal to power it. just cooling the chamber negates ant need to have a physical connection.

It does require an exchanger to be designed and incorporated in the cab. I have so far no calcs but there is plenty of room for such a device and this method would be easier to fit  without need to attach to the speaker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2013 at 3:58pm
It may be of some commercial value so shall say no more at this pointTongue
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2013 at 7:44pm
The nearest idea I had for cooling was copper pipe around the magnet and then refrigerated  water pumped round. But there was too much against the idea. Going back to the original days of rave, many water cooled Lazers were used and it wasn't unusual to find bucket loads of water back stage, so sooner or later connectors give trouble. Secondly, going back to my Tool making days in the Plastics Industry, we used to make the moulds with water ways to cool them. There was a choice of normal water or refrigerated water depending on the working temperature of the mould. With a largish speaker system it would only be practical to have a continual flow through all the cabs, but although the water might start off cold, it would be getting warmer as it passed through the different cabs. All in all, it wouldn't be practical, so that was the end of that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2013 at 8:18pm
peltier heat pumps would be ideal, being solid state with no liquid parts. having sufficient BTU would be the problem i suspect, but it would make a considerable difference.
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2013 at 8:22pm
wat about a heat exchanger?
...i mean putting a "large" radiator inside the chamber with heat pipe running out side to another radiator with a 140-200mm fan.
a similar effect to how computer heatsinks work but on a larger scale. it could work quite nicely but would need some extensive testing.

im talking about cooling the air inside the chamber not the magnet. i.e lowering the ambient temp inside the chamber by a few degrees....... and the few degrees can be the diff. between a cooked coil and a hot coil.


Edited by mini-mad - 19 December 2013 at 8:25pm
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2013 at 9:56pm
I reckon a throat heatsink is the best bet. Well cooled by airflow and the whole stack can cool as one. Even with no direct thermal contact to the driver it would probably be quite an improvement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2013 at 10:05pm
NOW IV NEVER HAD A DRIVER GET HOT ENUFF TO KNOW.... DOES THE WHOLE DRIVER GET HOT? EVEN THE FRAME?


*poxy caps lock.


Edited by mini-mad - 19 December 2013 at 10:05pm
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2013 at 12:01am
These days, the Frame is the Heat Sink.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitSmasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2013 at 12:21am
Water pathways through a cast aluminium frame would make sense... if necessary
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

many water cooled Lazers were used and it wasn't unusual to find bucket loads of water back stage, so sooner or later connectors give trouble
Neutrik to release a line of hydraulic fittings?
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2013 at 12:25am
I suppose if there was a leak, those using drain pipes for ports would be catered for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2013 at 7:00am
But you have to remember that for the heat to get into the magnet assembly first and hence to any connected structure it has to pass over a tiny but very important Air Gap.

Regardless of how many claims are made for advanced cooling of voice coils etc this fundamental weakness in the thermal flow cannot be overcome, at least with traditional methods.

Physically cooling the air in the cabinet to sub zero temperatures would probably make some difference but even then less than you would think.

What probably causes most of the early onset of thermal damage in the Punisher is simply that the movement of the cone is much smaller than normal due to the increased cone loading so that for example cone movement is probably 1/4 (Guess) what it would be in a reflex box.

The fact that it is also working in a tiny chamber acerbates the problem so that the poor air ventilation becomes extremely poor ventilation so the driver fails with seemingly less power than in a traditional box.
That said it is only probably 10-15% difference in the two scenarios.

Answer, simplzz, use two Punishers and only stick 500w up their arse's because you ain't gonna cure it with bits of "tin" no matter how clever you are.

Tony


Edited by Tony Wilkes - 20 December 2013 at 7:19am
www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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