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dnbpc View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 July 2022 at 10:36am

I had one of those nights this weekend where everything was going wrong and I could do with a hand diagnosing the issues. Bit of a long post so be prepared.

We we’re running a setup we have run many times before on generator power, the only difference this time being that we we’re taking a feed from an ultralink that was also sending a feed to 2 other systems. Amps were a powersoft k10 and void bias vq (powersoft m50q) powering 4 hogs, 4 cubo kicks and some NJD tops.

 

Firstly, the k10 was not registering a load with the hogs connected and read an impedance of unknownZ, checked cables all OK, signal was being received into the amp but no output. Then unplugging the cable and plugging it back into one of the cabs for the 3rd/4th time seemed to kick the amp in to gear and the hogs began working as expected and the amp was reading an impedance.

Second set of issues were with the kicks. At first the cables were the issue, then these we’re repaired, and everything seemed to be OK. Then Channel B began flashing red indicating a short circuit, I unplugged the daisy chained cab and this seemed to resolve the issue. Channel A then started to make a popping/cracking sound every now and again so I unplugged the boxes, checked cabling, swapped signal cable etc... and reconnected. Again everything was working OK but Looking at Armonia channel A was then reading 2 ohms for 2 8 ohm eminence kappas in parallel, assuming an incorrect reading I allowed to continue but at some point channel A showed HighZ and it appeared both drivers had give up.

 

Back at the unit yesterday I’ve tested the hogs with same cabling etc… and all OK.

With the cubos the short circuit box is reading 1.8ohm, the 2 that failed are not giving a reading and the working one is reading 6 ohms as expected. But this is as far as I got before I called it a day. 

As I said I've run the exact same setup many times before and never had any issues or amps reading impedances like this so if anyone has any ideas/places to start etc… it would be appreciated. 
Pick & Mix Soundsystem
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Points: 3122 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2022 at 12:20pm
dirty or corroded contacts in speakon plugs/sockets? re-solder connections to speakons? get a cable tester that checks for intermittent connection

Pyle-Pro PCT60 14-in-1 Cable Tester : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

or behringer do a cheaper one
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The set up with mains power is all ok? In that case my first thought would be a dodgy generator.

And as above, just check everything piece by piece in a logical manner. Normally the problem becomes clear.  Smile
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dnbpc View Drop Down
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Yeah no issues last time it was used on mains power but it has also been used with the same generator twice previously with no issue.

I'm a bit cautious regarding channel A of the Void VQ although when plugged into armonia it isn't reporting any issues but it does seem funny that its not had any issues previously and this time seems to have taken 2 drivers out. 

I have a basic cable tester which Ive checked all cables with and they seem ok but will look into the intermittent option 
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dnbpc View Drop Down
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Points: 383 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dnbpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2022 at 12:00pm
Started from scratch with the cables and resoldering them all, think i've found the culprit for the cubo killer. 

Must have missed one of the cables when testing as this one was wired 1+ 2- to 1+ 1- and was the cable that plugged into the now dead cubos. I'm guessing this is a result of someone trying to fix cables in the dark.

I am right in thinking this would be why the amp was seeing 2 ohm ish loads as it was trying to use both channels? Essentially powering 3 8 ohm cabs with 2 joined channels 
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Speak to conor @ guildford cable company, he makes Mains quality monitoring Distros...

I suspect you have the wrong cabling, wrong genset and the mains is all over the shop...

Powersoft are now pretty much obsolete as the Linea stuff has like Gen 7 SMPS as apposed to the Gen 3 in the K series, BUT IF you feed them 800A PSC plus (please find out what that means BEFORE you comment) they can still drop a little bass, shoddy cabling on the side is nearly as bad as idiots running 4mm in 2r....

Basic thing, 5Kw (not that any K series can do that) into 2r requires a 100V rail so the mains is only have the current of your speaker lead, so 16mm2 is prob your bare min feeder, your silly 4mm mains cabling may be taking more power than your drivers!!!
Kinda Been there, Kinda done that, YOU COULDN'T handle my bar bill!
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Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:


Powersoft are now pretty much obsolete as the Linea stuff has like Gen 7 SMPS as apposed to the Gen 3 in the K series,


Do you mean the Linea power supply that toggles between one of two AC input voltages on power up and doesn't use PFC, rather than being a typical Class D SMPS capable of running on 80V to 250V AC?
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I am always amazed when people claim things like that any of the K series can't do 5kW in 2R without any data backing up that claim. 
However, they are definately capable of those figure (even more) if you look at the independend and well documented production partner tests.
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2022 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

I am always amazed when people claim things like that any of the K series can't do 5kW in 2R without any data backing up that claim. 
However, they are definately capable of those figure (even more) if you look at the independend and well documented production partner tests.


They use a pair of K20 to power the ATLAS element of the Large Hadron Collider.

A Linea 44M20 is a fine amp, but Production Partner tests show that it will only do 5,000 Watts into 2 ohm loads with EIA426B shaped noise at 12 dB crest factor. A 6 dB CFZ 1 kHz sine burst nets 3,300 Watts into the same load, and RMS sine wave power is just under 1,000 Watts at 4 ohm per channel.

Meanwhile, I have this saved for K series sine wave power:


Edited by toastyghost - 24 August 2022 at 3:58pm
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Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

They use a pair of K20 to power the ATLAS element of the Large Hadron Collider.


Sozards, I'm taking this one and only opportunity to say you're wrong Kyle. They do have some K20s driving big kHz coils though. Wink
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2022 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by Meat Substitute Meat Substitute wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

They use a pair of K20 to power the ATLAS element of the Large Hadron Collider.


Sozards, I'm taking this one and only opportunity to say you're wrong Kyle. They do have some K20s driving big kHz coils though. Wink


Their own documentation says otherwise - although it’s probably changed in the recent reconfiguration:
https://cds.cern.ch/record/1232062/files/CERN-TE-Note-2010-001.pdf
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Meat Substitute View Drop Down
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Points: 79 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meat Substitute Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2022 at 10:30pm
Quote The 'AC dipole' will use two 18 kW audio amplifiers capable of driving the magnets at 1 kHz(rms) around 3 kHz or between 2.7 kHz and 4 kHz.


Yup, seen that. There's a bit more to ATLAS than that. That's just some fairly large coils.

Gotcha, lol.
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