Help me with delay |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
Ray666
Registered User Joined: 12 July 2005 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 9:49am |
so here is the
story: i have made 2 x1-s driven by RCF L18P300 and i have 2 DAS
ds-115a active speakers and a 2/3/4 way crossover how do i know how
much do i have to put the delay at my subs. im a estonian boy and don`t
speak english very well. i just got 17 and i don`t realy know something
about delayn. i have read other subjects speaking of it , but it seemed
so hard. so if anyone knows how much should be the average delay on the
x1s please answer. thanks for reading anyway.
|
|
mattcarus
Registered User Joined: 12 January 2005 Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi, welcome to speakerplans! You don't need any delay for the X1 subs. You only need delay for horn-loaded cabs. Matt |
|
norty303
Old Croc Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Eastbourne Status: Offline Points: 8806 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thats wrong actually. You will need to delay the tops to time align with the X1. BP6 type boxes tend to have quite a high group delay. The best way to set up your delay is to use a tone generator or sine wave cd. Start by phase reversing one of the boxes. Then play a sine wave thru the system at the frequency you want to crossover at e.g. an 80hz sine wave if you crossover at 80hz. Then start to delay the top box until you hear the tone go quieter. There will be a point where the sound will be quietest. Now change back the phase of the box you reversed. This is the correct delay setting for that crossover frequency. If you wish to change the crossover frequency you'll need to do this again as the group delay can change quite drastically over very small frequency changes. My BP6 box has a very large spike in the group delay at 80hz and goes up to 15ms. Alternatively you could model the box in WinISD and look at the group delay graph but this is likely to be less accurate |
|
My laser stuff: Frikkin Lasers
|
|
ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That's a really good method of accurately working out the required
delay with a minimum of equipment. Hadn't thought of doing it that
way. Will give it a go sometime. I generally guess/cheat
since most LMS's allow you to just enter the difference in metres;
probably not that accurate.
|
|
rastaman
Registered User Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ditto, thanks norty, nice tip.
|
|
norty303
Old Croc Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Eastbourne Status: Offline Points: 8806 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thank Dom, he posted it here first - I'm just recycling old knowledge. Make sure you do remember to flip the phase back again tho... |
|
My laser stuff: Frikkin Lasers
|
|
JD01
Young Croc Joined: 23 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 819 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
BUT do the WinISD thing in addition to see if the settings are reasonable. Working with sines will give pretty accurate 0° aligning, but who says that it is the same cycle? So checking for reasonability (can I say that?) is pretty useful. After aligning the boxes you can't change anything on your setup! No change of ANY filter frequency (highpass aka subsonic and lowpass on the sub, highpass on the top, even EQs in the outputs MUSTN'T change!), because they will change the groupdelay for that output on the crossover. Another good way is to use the Behringer UltraDrive as LMS. With an ECM8000 attached, it can measure the needed delays by itself. IMO it is the best LMS below 800 Euros anyways (Yes, better than the DriveRack PA!). |
|
norty303
Old Croc Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Eastbourne Status: Offline Points: 8806 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yep, i do the ECM8000/Ultradrive thing myself. But you can trick them also and its good to visually check the settings to ensure they look right
|
|
My laser stuff: Frikkin Lasers
|
|
Dom
Old Croc Joined: 25 February 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
With bass you should be ok - at 80hz a cycle is over 4m long. You've got to be a fair way off the mark before you get a whole cycle out. As you move up the frequency bands you've got to be a bit more accurate with your initial guess... |
|
"It sounded like a million fire engines chasing ten million ambulances through a war zone and it was played at a volume that made the empty chair beside me bleed."
|
|
Ray666
Registered User Joined: 12 July 2005 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hy Norty tnx for
the tip , but wich cab should i reverse? and do tou think
44 hz crossing is to low on these subs? i tried the 80hz and it didn`t
made as much noise when at 44 Hz so do you think its to low?
|
|
norty303
Old Croc Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Eastbourne Status: Offline Points: 8806 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You'll need to delay the tops. It doesn't really matter which cab you reverse the polarity on but it might be easier to do the sub. It should have made more noise at 80hz than 44hz as it should be playing more frequencies that you can hear. Are you using a hi-pass filter on the bottom end? What filter and slope are you using on the top end of the X1? Are you cutting the tops off at the crossover frequency or letting them play full range as this could cause cancellation |
|
My laser stuff: Frikkin Lasers
|
|
Ray666
Registered User Joined: 12 July 2005 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
hy norty sorry to be so late with my answer but i havn`t got time to deal with this problem.
I´m using a behringer cx3400 and ep2500 as amp. i´m going to get a digital cross so thats why i tried to understand what I should do with the delay. for now i`ve just placed top cabs behind the bass cabs with knowing the physics formula for delaying. it have helped me for some places where the stage is faced in one direction only. oh btw i don`t know whats wrong but one of my x1-s have started clipping. i toke the driver(RCF l18p300) out from the cab and i dont seem to understand what is the problem. is the amp to much for the transducer? i`m running the amp in bridge and i have two transducers running behind one amp. is it toast, or i can just get repaired? Edited by Ray666 |
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |