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Highest playing 'best' sounding driver for ES18's

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tcourtneyvincent View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 April 2015 at 2:43pm
I have built 4 ES18 BPH's loaded with pd186's and they defiantly pack a punch but the sound is not very nice, about 140hz upwards they are really honky and un-defined, which when playing with the rest of the system to the untrained ear probs doesnt matter, but its really bugging me.

I have to run them up to 180hz to meet our Floodlights. Does anyone what the best driver is to play high without getting that honk? To me pd186's in this design just sound terrible even though they seem to be a very commonly used driver for this design.

Many thanks :D


Edited by tcourtneyvincent - 14 April 2015 at 2:44pm
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Ryan94 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan94 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2015 at 4:56pm
Also interested in people's opinion on this, going to start building out new kick section next month. But unsure on how well ES18s play up to 180hz. Dont want to make a mistake by building them.
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bass*en*mass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2015 at 5:59pm
Even most 15" BPHs struggle to play nicely above 150hz imo.. Why should a heavy cone 18" do any better?

Best bet would be looking for a very light, efficient cone. Not too strong motor or it will sound too agressive up high. Just my conclusions from a small test session...


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nickyburnell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2015 at 7:36pm
Sigma pro?
It's everything, not everythink!
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bass*en*mass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2015 at 8:02pm
might be worth a try, tad higher Fs should help, 3" coil could be a good start though re. mms..
either you want kick bins or allrounders..

low Fs, medium motor, medium suspension will sound quite balanced and heavy but not "hard"
high Fs, strong motor, stiff suspension will sound quite "rough", good or bad depends on application
high Fs, medium motor and suspension will give best overall response

choice upto each user and his applications :)

Rear chamber, front chamber, compression ratio also play a big role to that passband, need to do some more tests to verify initial thoughts though..
Plenty to read up on, some hints hidden on here if one goes through related topics ;)

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tcourtneyvincent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcourtneyvincent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2015 at 9:54am
Great thank you guys, i will dig deeper and see what i can find. Some great info there 'bass', still havnt got my head round the driver small perimeters, great starting point thanks :)

One other thing if i chuck a load of wadding in the rear chamber do you recon that would help? I have a thinish layer of wadding covering the sides but maybe something a bit more heavy duty and more of it, like some acoustic foam or something?


Edited by tcourtneyvincent - 15 April 2015 at 9:57am
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bass*en*mass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2015 at 6:22pm
no expert by any means, just some recent impressions..

sound is a very subjective thing, everyones ears are different.
Application plays a big role too imo, depending on it you might choose different too.

live bands and top40 need a multi purpose balanced sound
edm "raves" need a hard, chest hitting bass (even if a little one notish;)
sub culture "dances" need a warm, rather heavy kick (even if lacking definition to some extent)

Not an easy task to find the best combination for the task.

Will have a go at trying different amounts of wadding and report back asap, curious myself..
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bee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2015 at 8:03pm
one word....
 
transient response....
 
why do people want 18" kicks...... im yet to hear an 18" bph sound good past 140hz....
 
as bass en mass said most 15" struggle to get up 150hz with out honking... there are very few 15" bph that can hit 180hz and above....
https://www.elements-audio.com
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cravings View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2015 at 9:32pm
read some of the threads on tse118 / 218s to read people's thoughts on 18" drivers to play up high.

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bee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2015 at 9:47pm
@ cravings sorry I should of put free plan.....
 
yes there are a few production cabs that do work, but also cost a lot more.... But still to my ears don't perform 140hz to 200hz as well as a 15", which leads back to the reason why... Transient response...
https://www.elements-audio.com
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Sypa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2015 at 10:38pm
I have tms2 and they have a bph 15" which plays too 250. Original drivers inside. When playing on its own you could say it sound a bit honky/strange but when playing with the whole system that sounds is gone and overwhelmed by everything else and just sounds normal. So maybe testing a bph on its own doesnt really do it justice and isnt a final how it would perform within a system.

Also have es18 with b&c pzb100 ,but has been long when i last experimented with crossing it higher and dont quite remember the sound. Gonna try next time the systems out for sure.


Edited by Sypa - 15 April 2015 at 10:55pm
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THECANDLEMAN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THECANDLEMAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2015 at 5:34pm
Iv gone through the process of getting 6x es218's built in the last 6 months

I was advised to look at the RCF 401 driver to cover that upper section as well as covering the other bases
Motion Systems - Void Airmotion, Airten & Stasys 218 With Powersoft DSP
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