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Hog Scoop Driver

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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 1:10am
Put the mic further back, especially for multiple boxes. 4m or more. If there are boundaries nearby you’ll also have a reflection causing cancellations in response. You can potentially window these out a little but not say an entire building or big solid wall within 7m or so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 10:47am
Thanks 
Much better now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 12:20pm
Nobody actually measures their boxes at 1m. You measure further away and scale to 1m. After all, how much of your audience is 1m away from each speaker?

10m gives the easiest maths, apply 28.3v for sensitivity measurements. Any less, and you just gotta do some logarithmic sums. Assuming that is a calibrated mic, of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 1:03pm
if I do, I would expect police to show up :D
did this today, at 1m outdoor, boundaries and walls at about 15m
green is no filters no eq
orange is response from processing some technicians did for me (and it doesnt work that well, thats why I do on my own)
purple is 30/70hz 24db LR with some little corrective eq,will try again in the afternoon

REW with umik 1 mic, dsp is nst audio d48s

started to measure kick and trying to time align and the wind started to blow messing everything up

but really thanx for all advices toastyghost, I've got to learn a lot...



Edited by king david - 06 January 2019 at 1:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 2:08pm
Thanks for posting these measurements, would be nice to see the phase response of the unfiltered measurement as will show where the horn loads down to and also what is happening at the upper notch.
Don't think you need such a severe HP filter, have you tried a 2nd order Butterworth? Less steep filter will reduce GD and also the the Butterworth filter has less effect above it's cutoff, is has a sharper knee I would have thought those drivers would more than cope with that approach.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 2:08pm
Looks to me like you have the HPF set a little too gentle. Try a BW24. It’s also worth doing the CEA2010 test in REW (read the manual) to see how the box behaves at full output, it’s often very different to how it measures with low level signal and your preset should be somewhere towards how it’ll be used most often. It’s easy to make a sub look nice with low voltage but often it sounds pants when driven hard!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:

Thanks for posting these measurements, would be nice to see the phase response of the unfiltered measurement as will show where the horn loads down to and also what is happening at the upper notch.
Don't think you need such a severe HP filter, have you tried a 2nd order Butterworth? Less steep filter will reduce GD and also the the Butterworth filter has less effect above it's cutoff, is has a sharper knee I would have thought those drivers would more than cope with that approach.



Better than phase response for subs is the impedance plot and group delay, because all subs will be stretched in time more than any other section of the system. Also, absolute phase is sometimes tricky to measure. You definitely need to be more than 1m away for that - same for EQ and filters to be honest, at 1m you’re barely past the acoustic centre of the box’s output.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonskulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 6:38pm
Yes, please, do the measurements at least 5m away! :)  wish it was summertime, cant wait to do my own response measurements @ outdoors. I have umik1 + rew too. 

And it is true, response might be - or will be way different if you compare at 1  watt and 500watts input. 


Edited by Tonskulus - 06 January 2019 at 6:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 7:05pm
did it again at 10m...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 7:08pm
this is 
hog w/18sw115 30/60 24db lr with es18 w/18nw100 on top, think low cut on 18nw is lr 24db and higher up its 140hz 12db butterworth but I don't remember now, phase was flipped on the es18, can't remember delay



Edited by king david - 06 January 2019 at 7:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2019 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:

Thanks for posting these measurements, would be nice to see the phase response of the unfiltered measurement as will show where the horn loads down to and also what is happening at the upper notch.
Don't think you need such a severe HP filter, have you tried a 2nd order Butterworth? Less steep filter will reduce GD and also the the Butterworth filter has less effect above it's cutoff, is has a sharper knee I would have thought those drivers would more than cope with that approach.



Better than phase response for subs is the impedance plot and group delay, because all subs will be stretched in time more than any other section of the system. Also, absolute phase is sometimes tricky to measure. You definitely need to be more than 1m away for that - same for EQ and filters to be honest, at 1m you’re barely past the acoustic centre of the box’s output.

Agree that mpedance plot would be nice to see.

Thanks again for uploading the plots David, I think less is more re hp filter, never found a need to use more than 2nd order on a dual spider subwoofer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2019 at 10:37am
noticed sound imperial sound army using turbomax red eyes in there scoops now !!
TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM
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