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Robbo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 11:12am
Back in the seventies when we were touring very big Martin Audio and Mega PA rigs, we put together a compact hire rig purely to cope with the club circuit and smaller venues and instead of using horn loaded gear the rig was all direct radiating on bass and mid.
At that time Chris Sherwin at Mega did us a great deal on four JBL4530 single 15" scoop bins empty and they suited us great as they packed nicely into a LWB Transit with all of the other gear.
We loaded them with RCF L15P-06 drivers which was one of the best 15" drivers about at that time and we set up the system in one of our local club venues to have a play with it and set up Xover points etc.
We were absolutely knocked out by the great warm depth on the bottom end and once we had set up our Xover and filters etc it sounded even better and the following night used the rig for the first time with a live band through it and everyone was very happy.
At that time there were a lot of really good reggae bands about and we were working with acts like Steel Pulse, UB40 and Pressure Shocks etc and the sound quality was superb on every gig and somehow the scoops just seemed to work brilliant and we even compared them with four Gauss loaded JBL4560 sidefill cabinets from our touring rig and there was no comparison to the sound coming from the scoops.
We even had loads of the local Reggae sound system guys turning up at gigs with tape measures trying to measure the cabinets inside and out.
From then on, I have always had a soft spot for scoops as they do give a sound that is nothing like any other cabinets on the market even though a lot on here try to knock them or explain how they do not work very well efficiency wise.
For some reason THEY JUST WORK.
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paulus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 10:46am
+1 for the golden palace sessions was lucky enough to play there twice , good days there were  :) there is nothing i like more than a decent 218 reflex the ks28 is a beast ,i have heard 3 a side at a festival and was bloody serious but I have also put 4 1850 scoops next to 6 ohm trs218 once in a session and made the ohm boxes look rather silly 

Edited by paulus - 08 August 2022 at 10:52am
TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 10:20am
As Luke says, this is the problem with SP, and why many just do not post here anymore.

"Golden Palace" soundsystem shootouts in NE London   were a great game changer. Thanks to Motion54..Thumbs Up

PA dudes and Reggae Soundsystem enthusiasts travelled from all over UK, and sometimes from overseas, to hear what could be achieved, usually with systems based on just 4x subs, in big venue, with proper power.
H
Listeners compared systems based on music played, sound engineer ability, system composition, not a meter in sight.. LOL

Put an end to many SP pointless armchair critic arguments.

Here we are in another decade, and some people still like to generalise about Scoops, knowing next to nothing, about how far Scoops, and modern drivers optimal in  them, have progressed.

I remember the old argument here, about the ignorant saying Shortman minis were just reflex cabs, until the non initiated heard a stack of 4x, destroy stacks of 4x 218s, or Stack of 4x Folded horns, or even stacks of certain full Scoops.

It even took a soundtest, where various Scoops where measured with meter, and Shortman mini was measured to be even louder at 40hz, than Hog Scoop with V18-1000.

So Luke, you know it's pointless arguing this here.

Scoop forum, for Scoop people, not Scoop haters I say, seeing as I was the person who got the Scoop forum created, and asked Rog for the HR params for Supers, over a decade ago.



Edited by levyte357- - 08 August 2022 at 10:28am
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 10:02am
Exactly that 
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 9:38am
Originally posted by luton_soundman luton_soundman wrote:

This is the problem with sp. No matter what you do or how many hundreds are there to witness who share the same opinion those who wernt there will say it didnt happenThumbs Down

All questions have been open minded and just trying to understand what appears on the surface to be counter intuitive.  I dont believe anyone said it didnt happen, on the contary its the insistence it did that made me want to find out why. 

I dont think thats a problem with sp, i think thats a strength. 

If there is a problem its that no one can back it up with measurements and all the data is subjective opinion, despite this being an ongoing question on here for years. 


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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 9:31am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:


Is that it?

The standard coupling of a driver to the air must be pretty shocking for that to be the whole story?


A ported enclosure typically has an efficiency range of 0.05 to 3%.

Wow, that gives a significant room for improvement! Pretty gobsmacked to be honest. 
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 9:11am
I would loved to hear them. What design are they? They look like they are loaded with PD? 

I would like to compare to a proper double 18 driven with a Linea 44M20 though.
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luton_soundman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 8:47am
Tony wilkes, Bee elements audio, Tony A.S.S., Chris CSG impulse audio, Jon RC1 and many other respected pa professionals were in attendance. 
Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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luton_soundman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 8:44am
Originally posted by Matty309 Matty309 wrote:

There's no way 4 scoops wiped the floor with 12 double 18s. 

My single double 18 is noticeably louder and deeper than a void loaded hog so I'm not sure what you were using, sounds rather unrealistic to me.

12 single reflex and come here my system 1 day. 1 smini will drop ALOT lower than 4+ hogs. 2 very different cabs.
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luton_soundman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 8:41am
Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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luton_soundman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2022 at 8:39am
This is the problem with sp. No matter what you do or how many hundreds are there to witness who share the same opinion those who wernt there will say it didnt happenThumbs Down
Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2022 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:


Is that it?

The standard coupling of a driver to the air must be pretty shocking for that to be the whole story?


A ported enclosure typically has an efficiency range of 0.05 to 3%.
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