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Conanski View Drop Down
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Points: 2401 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2023 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

Ok so the horns I have are:

x4 RX22 (Horn) 8ohm 

x2 Fane J.104 (Horn) 8ohm 100/125w above 5Khz

x2 Altai mht-392 (Horn) 8ohm 


I was thinking of having x2 RX22 per box but have contemplated adding in the Fane & Altai too 


You don't need two of the PV drivers or any of the others really as it will go to 20khz, if you must put a Fane on top of it and cross it passively at 8-10khz so another amp channel isn't needed. One RX22 will outrun(get louder than) your "mids" box by quite a bit so you will need to turn it down to produce balanced sound. 



Edited by Conanski - 05 March 2023 at 3:37pm
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Thanks!

I’ve only recently got my DSP sorted (I had to buy an old laptop to use the software) so still not got my head around it really and currently watching videos about crossover settings.

Apologies Conanski but here comes some daft questions:

1. Why do I not want it to go over 20kHz? Is that because combining the horns would take it above them
above the horns max frequency capabilities of 20kHz?

2. When you say cross it passively do you mean on the DSP?

3. This takes me on to another question related to this - I take it is important to know all your drivers specs/handling when setting up your DSP channels crossover so you get the sound balanced and don’t blow drivers/horns?

I was thinking of mounting the horns but as you say only wiring/using the RX22 for now then I can connect the others as I expand my sound? But as you say I don’t want to just use them for the sake of it if it creates unbalanced sound!

Also as in image posted here why do some sounds favour adding x8 Piezos as well as horns?
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csg View Drop Down
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Points: 6086 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2023 at 2:20pm
As regards the pictures i posted, please be aware that the horns are driven by specialist high mid compression drivers (2”) that have a working range of 600-8000Hz or so. The tweeters are moving coil tweeters, not piezos.

With 1” drivers you will have extension to 16KHz at least so tweeters above are redundant and likely to cause more problems than they solve.

Very few people over the age of 30 can hear past 16KHz, I suspect most people in the sound system or PA game have much above 14KHz unless they are children!…


Edited by csg - 06 March 2023 at 2:23pm
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

1. Why do I not want it to go over 20kHz? Is that because combining the horns would take it above them
above the horns max frequency capabilities of 20kHz?
No it's not that at all. 20khz is the limit if human hearing, in fact most people can't even hear past 16khz some even less. The PV tweeters can go to 20khz by themselves so there really is no need for supertweeters... which are generally only used when a conventional tweeter doesn't go that high.

Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

2. When you say cross it passively do you mean on the DSP?
No with a passive crossover inside the speaker cabinet.

Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

3. This takes me on to another question related to this - I take it is important to know all your drivers specs/handling when setting up your DSP channels crossover so you get the sound balanced and don’t blow drivers/horns?
Yes.


Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

Also as in image posted here why do some sounds favour adding x8 Piezos as well as horns?
They may be recreating the look of a classic sound system, or they have tweeters that don't go very high, or they don't know how to or don't have the equipment to apply corrective EQ. It could be that they just like the sound of piezos(can't imagine why.. they don't sound very good) or that the music culture has a fettish for excessive high frequency content. 


Edited by Conanski - 06 March 2023 at 2:32pm
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If I don’t add the fanes and have x2 PX22’s 0
Per box would I still need a passive crossover? If so could I use the crossover that was in the peaveys or is that not suitable as it’s a crossover for High to Mid?
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Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

or that the music culture has a fettish for excessive high frequency content. 

Reminded me of taking a stroll through Notting hill carnival this bit LOL
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Points: 2401 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2023 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

If I don’t add the fanes and have x2 PX22’s 0
Per box would I still need a passive crossover?
No but if you do that build the box with one horn pointed to the left and the other to the right. What horns do you have for these anyway?
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Just the horns that came with the px22s. The actual horn is plastic. That’s why I wanted to incorporate the Fane or Altai as they have metal horns which is meant to be a better material
Isn’t it?

I have x2 boxes so will mount x2 in each box at an angle for if I split my stack as it’s a x4 L x4 M stack.

How would I connect internally to sockets so I have only x1 L & R per box? Series or parallel?
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Generally well damped plastic is preferable as it does not ring and add harmonics like metal horns can
If they are the original peavey horns then many are made from glass loaded plastic which is a very good sounding material. Keep them and don’t just add other random drivers 

It is easy to presume that adding a horn will give you more treble, but this is, or can be, far from the case.

Without careful calculations to avoid destructive interference between horns, adding an extra horn usually results in uneven coverage, lots of hotspots and cancellations, and quite often LESS output than using one horn alone!
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Thanks, less is more in this case!

“The tweeters are moving coil tweeters” what do these smaller moving coil tweeters add as I’ve seen some systems with and some without?
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Points: 2401 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2023 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

“The tweeters are moving coil tweeters” what do these smaller moving coil tweeters add as I’ve seen some systems with and some without? 

They are another type of supertweeter, they do a better job than piezos but again generally aren't needed in all cases.
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Points: 6086 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2023 at 9:58pm
Indeed, in the specific case of this particular sound system they run 5 way

Subs 35 to 80Hz
Bass 80 to 250Hz
Low mid 250 to 700Hz
Upper mid 700Hz to 7KHz - the horns in the picture 
Tweeters 7KHz to 20KHz - the tweeters

As i said previously these particular horn drivers are dedicated upper mid units and really need the tweeters. They are time and phase aligned so they both work in unison.

Your 1” drivers are very different and are able to play up to the same frequencies as the tweeters in this system. They wont however give you the same output at the bottom of their range (1200Hz ish) but providing your mid range section is man enough you will be fine
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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