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how did this happen?

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cravings View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 September 2011 at 10:10am
checked a pair of turbosound txd12m monitors yesterday.. one of them sounded totally terrible.. investigation revealed this....







the magnet has totally split. there's damage to the crossover board too... melted wadding around the big coil, and one of the capacitors has literally exploded.

what would have caused all this to happen? the driver still reads ok on the meter, and some sound muffles its way out of it.. but the coil is totally trapped in the broken magnet.

i'm sure i remember seeing a post by someone (peter moller maybe? maybe not..) who had the crossover in one of these boxes go on fire.. but i can't find that now.

and also what to do. i've looked on the board and someone said the LS1219 driver is actually a p-audio E12-200atw... does anyone know if this is true, or the cheapest way to get this speaker back to normal quickly?

thanks..

Edited by cravings - 09 September 2011 at 10:11am
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JR.junior View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR.junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2011 at 10:47am
This often happens, if the driver/magnet is still hot and you move the speaker, and than you hit hard ond the cabinet accidentaly... the ceramic is fragile @ very hot temp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote burningbush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2011 at 3:08pm
If the crossover has gone I would assume it has been vastly overdriven, blowing the network and heating the magnet - and that with a knock would do it.  Ouch.
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cravings View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2011 at 4:47pm
could it have been the other way round? as in... driver got hot, box dropped, driver cracked.... and on next usage, the stuck driver caused some impedence change or something which caused the crossover to take too much power?

trying to work out can i "blame" someone for this..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingkwak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2011 at 4:43pm
One of my txd 121 xovers has had blown caps, the whole xover is made by elytone. You are right about the driver, should have no problems replacing that.
After one of the caps went on mine it changed the sound slightly, but was sending different frequencies other than those it was designed for, I am supposing that my driver would of given in if not noticed. A coment on my post about the replacement of caps has sugested that replacing them with the same value but higher voltage should protect the xover (and hopfully the driver) in future. 
To much power? NEVER.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2011 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

could it have been the other way round? as in... driver got hot, box dropped, driver cracked.... and on next usage, the stuck driver caused some impedence change or something which caused the crossover to take too much power?


If it were the other way around, you probably would find some traces on the cab outside and generally the whole magnet shifts or cracks off entirely if it had got a serious drop or blow. I've seen many split magnets like that and it's always after driven (too) hard. In many cases the filters is damaged also, just like yours now. Filter components don't burn in the time you need to find out that something isn't right, let's say a few minutes, it must have taken maybe several hours to get damaged like that. What you have there is the result of a too long/too hard driven speaker.

The speaker is a P Audio for sure, I can't say if it's a regular of custom speaker.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2011 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by JR.junior JR.junior wrote:

This often happens, if the driver/magnet is still hot and you move the speaker, and than you hit hard ond the cabinet accidentaly... the ceramic is fragile @ very hot temp.
What kind of temp are we talking about, warm to the touch, hot to the touch, or freaking hot??? i've always wondered what kind of temperature a voice-coil and or magnet assembly can handle before breaking. never got the magnets of my l18p300 loaded miss piggy sub warmer then hand warm and that was with some serious power on them (120db @1m continuous, 135db@peaks for about one hour)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2011 at 4:38pm
ok the other one has cracked now. and i remember now that the guy i got them off had had one of the drivers crack on him too... he'd had it replaced with the correct turbo one.

so now.. i don't think i'm even looking for turbo replacemnts... i'd rather the cone / coil gave up first than the actual magnet... i realise these have obviously had the knackers driven out of them when i wasn't around (one was on one channel of a matrix ukp2100x at the time, the other on a matrix xp1500 at the time), but i think some tougher / cheaper / easier to get drivers is what i want.

unless someone from turbosound actually reads this.. contact me with info on how to get correct parts..

so

any suggestions on 12" drivers for a very small "full range" wedge box? might have a stab at working out the volume and the ports in a bit.. circular drivers are good, i have a pair of the neo pds in the workshop waiting for me to build more mt121s.. the shape of them means they won't fit in this box.

any thoughts? will obviously search around etc but i'm just grumbling now cos i've just found the second one is gone..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2011 at 5:22pm
just read this topic here too (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,2309.0.html)
this does seem to happen to these drivers so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noiseboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2011 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

ok the other one has cracked now. and i remember now that the guy i got them off had had one of the drivers crack on him too... he'd had it replaced with the correct turbo one.

so now.. i don't think i'm even looking for turbo replacemnts... i'd rather the cone / coil gave up first than the actual magnet... i realise these have obviously had the knackers driven out of them when i wasn't around (one was on one channel of a matrix ukp2100x at the time, the other on a matrix xp1500 at the time), but i think some tougher / cheaper / easier to get drivers is what i want.

unless someone from turbosound actually reads this.. contact me with info on how to get correct parts..

so

any suggestions on 12" drivers for a very small "full range" wedge box? might have a stab at working out the volume and the ports in a bit.. circular drivers are good, i have a pair of the neo pds in the workshop waiting for me to build more mt121s.. the shape of them means they won't fit in this box.

any thoughts? will obviously search around etc but i'm just grumbling now cos i've just found the second one is gone..

 Yeah annoying isn't it I've had magnets move/crack on expensive drivers which means they're pretty much scrap!  

 Whereas the odd few cheapo Eminence and Celestion I have seem to survive, only occasionally blowing a coil which can be easily and cheaply reconed or just replace the whole driver.

 I sometimes wonder about expensive drivers on mid range/upper bass duty.

 The Celestion Truvox 1525  is pretty good sounding on mid duty if not driven too hard, as yet never had a magnet move and cheap as chips to keep a few on stock.  Makes you wonder!









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krazyneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2011 at 6:53pm
hi cravings
why not speak to tony wilkes about some bms drivers as they always get good reviews on here and tony good on pricing Smile
GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT !!!!!
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cravings View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2011 at 6:59pm
i have indeed bought some bms off tony and am open to any specific suggestions for 12" drivers for very small wedge monitor type applications...

the stock passive xover in these crosses over at 1.8khz with the stock parts in it.
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