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How To......Cardioid Sub Arrays

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burningbush View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote burningbush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2013 at 3:52pm
First be clear on what you want to acheive.  Do you want to reduce the amount of sub on stage, or steer the bass in a given direction?
music is the message
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Ohmen Audio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ohmen Audio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2013 at 12:52pm
reduce the sub on the stage mainly. but i suppose knowledge on both would be useful. :)

Edited by Ohmen Audio - 12 August 2013 at 7:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ohmen Audio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2013 at 1:05pm
:)

Edited by Ohmen Audio - 12 August 2013 at 7:23pm
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Pasi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2013 at 3:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2013 at 9:40pm
Good work Pasi! What was the horizontal coverage like with this setup?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2013 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by Pasi Pasi wrote:

My solution from the last weekend...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201741867414240&set=o.173813726282&type=1&theater¬if_t=like


Did you go with end fired just to make sure Dom's ones were hidden at the back away from any potential buyers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinmcdonough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2013 at 10:33pm
hey

looks great, be interesting to hear a bit more detail about your set up: cab spacing and processing settings etc.  Add some real life info to all the theory Smile


k


Edited by kevinmcdonough - 19 August 2013 at 10:34pm
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Pasi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2013 at 8:53am
This sort of setup is an extension from normal cardioid where front row is delayed to the back row. The spacing between the cabinets equals to 1/4th of the wavelength where the main cancellation will happen. Another 1/4th will be done with time delay where the bins in front are delayed to the rearmost ones.

In this setup the spacing between the cabinets was 1.35m as i wanted to focus more on lower end cancellation at the back and at the stage. So starting from the back we have 0 time, 4ms delay, 8ms delay and 12ms delay. (rounded up, accurate delay was 3.9xxx). This way sound combines perfectly when going forwards, but adds cancellation when going backwards.



In this pic, green shows the response in front, 2m away from the front cabinets. Pink one is measured at the drum riser with both sides on. And the 3rd whatchammacallit colour is then 2m behind the rear row. As you can see, this resulted to good cancellation at the stage and about 24dB drop @ 40Hz.

Sideways it looked like this:


Number 4 being the front row and number 1 the back row. Green, downstage center is measured again both sides on whilst all others are just one side on.

So this sort of arrangements has many benefits. Good cancellation to the back, perfect adding to the front which keeps the impulse response intact and reasonable cancellation to the stage as well. The negative points are 4 DSP channels needed and quite a lot of space.

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doober View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2013 at 9:44pm
Thanks for sharing the plots, very impressive results.

I'd always wondered how beneficial using 4 rows is compared to 2. Others have mentioned that the more rows the better for rear cancellation, but surely cabs 1 and 3 are actually reinforcing each other in both directions due to being 1/2 wavelength apart and delayed 1/2 wavelength relative to each other. I suppose if you always use an even number of rows this won't matter. I also think that the more rows you use the narrower the horizontal coverage will become, I don't have anything to back this up though...

In your photo what is the distance between left and right sub arrays? I like the idea (another one in my head) that if you space them correctly you can have the edges of the coverage just touching, no more power alley!
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Pasi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2013 at 9:54pm
Stage was 10m wide and subs were set about 2m from the stage so distance between the arrays was around 14m.

Power alley effect was quite nicely reduced, not eliminated, but it was acceptable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timo Beckman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2013 at 10:06am
I did a measurement seminar this week in Rimini Italy where i did a end fired configuration :

enjoy


Edited by Timo Beckman - 31 August 2013 at 10:07am
The sound will be as good as the band play's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timo Beckman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2013 at 9:59am
The sound will be as good as the band play's
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