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If Xmax shouldn't be exceeded, why have a Xlim? |
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rich_gale ![]() Old Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2697 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 10 January 2011 at 10:17pm |
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why do manufacturers publish a xlim/xmech figure alongside an xmax figure, often the xlim/xmech is 4 times the travel of the xmax. if you shouldnt drive a speaker past its xmax, why can they cater for further excursion?
what % excursion over the published xmax is considered too much? i have had a pd186 sounding twice as loud with about 1" excursion than when it was within its 9mm xmax limit. and it sounded no less defined than when keeping within xmax. why in real life terms (not boring theoretical paperwork crap) should i not drive a speaker past its xmax???
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REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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daywalk3r ![]() Registered User ![]() Joined: 12 August 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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One word: DISTORTION If a more "boring theoretical paperwork crap" answer is needed, willing to elaborate ![]() |
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MunkeyQ ![]() Registered User ![]() Beware,Scammer. Joined: 23 May 2009 Location: near london Status: Offline Points: 449 |
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Yep... Xmax is the excursion keeping the voice coil immersed in its magnetic field, where the drive is linear. Over xmax, the voice coil leaves the field and is no longer controlled by the magnet, meaning distortion increases immensely. Xmech/Xlim is when the suspension mechanically reaches its limits and is damaged. |
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JR.junior ![]() Old Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 December 2009 Location: Slovenija Status: Offline Points: 1789 |
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because you'll have too much coil windings out of the magnet gap x time, that can looks like that...than.
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Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder!
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S DeXter ![]() Young Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 2008 Location: Moon Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Drivers are often driven out of their Xmax. The magnetic fields can extend much further than xmax. Motor design alters the rate of distortion outside the gap (underhung designs for example suffer badly from this).
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Enjoy your self...... It's later than you think.......
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daywalk3r ![]() Registered User ![]() Joined: 12 August 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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.. or when the voice coil slams into the back plate, which is also a thing you would normaly NOT want it to do ![]() |
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Pasi ![]() Old Croc ![]() Joined: 25 April 2010 Location: Knutsford Status: Offline Points: 2730 |
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Magnetic fields do extend outside gap of course and it also moves a bit along with voice coil. Here is model from my latest 8" plateset design. Flux profile, magnet stength isn't right since i don't have specs for right magnet type. And i was anyway more interested about profile at this point. Goal is to make it as symmetrical as possible to reduce distortion. ![]() |
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airbell ![]() Registered User ![]() Joined: 11 June 2009 Location: Berlin, Germany Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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If the voicecoil is out of the xmax, its not like you lose the total control, its just that you lose the more control the more you are out of the xmax, what means distortion.
a good example why there is a xlim is the ciare 12sw. it has a very big true xmax about 11,5mm, but unfortunately xlim is just slightly bigger ![]() the proof is my blown ciare, the voicecoil hit the magnet as i pushed it too far in the wrong enclosure, now its damaged, but the wire in the coil is still fine -.- I also think, but i have no proofs, its just my personal opinion, that some manufactures are not exactly about there xmax specs, coz some speakers with lower xmax seem to push more air than other speakers with a higher rated xmax, even if they are in the same type of enclosure with the same tuning. |
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airbell ![]() Registered User ![]() Joined: 11 June 2009 Location: Berlin, Germany Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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btw the irony about it is that the ciare 12sw has no rated xlim in its specs sheed
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rich_gale ![]() Old Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2697 |
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nice to see not everyone is blasting on about distortion. going out of xmax does not add distortion from what i have heard in real life situations, using well engineered woofers. running out of amp headroom makes this distortion, not exceeding xmax. exceeding xlim will produce distortion. going 3-5mm over a 9mm xmax still means a cabinet will go lower or louder or both, and i dont think the negative effects are anywhere near what most people go on about.
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REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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rich_gale ![]() Old Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2697 |
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come on man...:) we all know that coil fried because of a continued clipping amp or a huge peak. that woofer looks like a toy. very rarely do you see a 186 or 1850 coil in this state
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REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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Pasi ![]() Old Croc ![]() Joined: 25 April 2010 Location: Knutsford Status: Offline Points: 2730 |
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When going over Xmax, harmonic distortion increases significantly, no matter what you say. Completely different matter wheter you can hear it or do care about it. Of course you can do that, it doesn't cause any damage to speaker, or at least to well designed speaker. But sound quality does suffer.
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