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Is my rig man enough for the job?

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charlysays View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 November 2018 at 2:32pm
Never been booked for such a large event before... potentially 500 people in a 100ft X 50ft X 25ft apex room.

I have four cubo subs two loaded with 18nlw9000 two 18nlw9400. Total power going to them is 6.7kw. I then have a couple of JBL MP418s subs which whilst not ideal, I was going to use to reinforce the 70-120hz region. I'm proposing a central block of all the subs to maximise output and keep the high sub sound pressure in the middle of the dancefloor.
My tops are JBL SP215-9 which will be on stands to the sides. They are 600w each and have 4" voice coils on both the woofer and comp (comp weighs more than the woofer lol).
My instinct tells me this will be enough. I have done a gig for 150 people in a 50ft X 75ft X 20ft hall and couldn't turn it up more than about 60% without books falling off the shelves in the neighbouring bar and the cops turning up due to residence complaining about loud rattling noises from the building audible some distance away but looking for reassurance I guess, or a simple "let someone with a bigger rig take the gig".

Music played will be house, disco, afrobeat I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2018 at 5:00pm
..build another pair of cubo's and fly the tops up nice and high aimed at the centre of the dance floor(?)


If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charlysays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2018 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

..build another pair of cubo's and fly the tops up nice and high aimed at the centre of the dance floor(?)




Hmm... so maybe it won't be enough then. I forgot to say that there's limited power availble at the venue at the moment. The tech guy says it'll run a 10kw rig ok, mine is almost 10kw of speakers and in excess of 10kw of amps.

The other issue is that I've only managed to use four cubos on one occasion in 3 years of having them- so far no venues have been big enough! Even then I couldn't turn them up. I can hardly justify another two cubos as such :(
Could the subs not be placed in a block tight against a side wall to net some more gain rather than having them well away from the walls? Corsica studios is like that in elephant and castle. F1 system and the 218s are all in a block on the wall on the right of the DJ booth, seems to work well.

Never done any flying before. I was planning on some HD winch equipped speaker stands and perhaps some adapters to tilt the speakers a bit as those would be useful for all other venues whereas another pair of cubos and flying cables etc wouldn't. Very limited venues around here- this is basically the only decent sized venue about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2018 at 7:14pm
The rig should do fine IMO but don't bother bringing the JBL subs they won't even be audible over the cubos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2018 at 8:00pm
It really depends whether the client is looking for a sensible volume level or a really full-on club system.  If it's the former then you'll probably be ok but if they're looking for a lot of noise then you could run out of headroom, especially on the mid-tops.

Don't bother trying to think about flying etc, it opens a massive can of worms on many points.

On the subject of power, 10kW of amps won't draw anywhere near 10kW from the mains continuously.  Maybe 1/4 of that is more realistic.  I've run far more than that off a single 13A socket (with a standard fuse before anyone pipes up!).

If you did take the JBL subs, the best bet would be to use them under the tops as a sub-sat system, then have the Cubo's as an extra central bass stack.  The JBL subs won't add much level but it's nice to have some bass coming from the same direction as the mid-high.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charlysays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2018 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

The rig should do fine IMO but don't bother bringing the JBL subs they won't even be audible over the cubos.


I feel the same but there's a doubt in my mind. Thanks for the reassurance.
The other company who have quoted more than me would be bringing four 2X18s. From field measurments I've seen on here cubos more or less match a 2X18 in output atleast from 40hz up. The JBL tops are ridiculously loud and the large comps are able to belt it out whilst staying clear/ clean.
Even in the middle of a field standing near the cubos in a four block is very satisfying.

What I may do is hit up some mates with subs. Sound check the day before or early on the day and if I'm in any doubt I could add more in. I've used reflex subs in the same band as the cubos before when I only had two cubos and by flipping the phase on the cubos, it gets noticeably louder when you bring in the reflex subs indicating vaguely acceptable phase alignment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charlysays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2018 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by ceharden ceharden wrote:

It really depends whether the client is looking for a sensible volume level or a really full-on club system.  If it's the former then you'll probably be ok but if they're looking for a lot of noise then you could run out of headroom, especially on the mid-tops.

Don't bother trying to think about flying etc, it opens a massive can of worms on many points.

On the subject of power, 10kW of amps won't draw anywhere near 10kW from the mains continuously.  Maybe 1/4 of that is more realistic.  I've run far more than that off a single 13A socket (with a standard fuse before anyone pipes up!).

If you did take the JBL subs, the best bet would be to use them under the tops as a sub-sat system, then have the Cubo's as an extra central bass stack.  The JBL subs won't add much level but it's nice to have some bass coming from the same direction as the mid-high.



From having been to his festival I'd say somewhere in the middle... he had a compact weird looking (but nice sounding) void hire rig there. satisfying bass but not earth shattering and not liable to cause too much ringing of the ears is what he wants I think rather than 8 scoops in a small room type of sound.

I'll keep an eye out for some winch speaker stands. Fitting top hats to the JBL tops this week or next.

Good plan with the jbl subs under the tops. Will even out the coverage a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2018 at 4:44pm
Build another pair of cubos and get the tops up high on stands or something tilted down to the rough centre of the dance area. Power ally the cubos and have done. 

The more cabs the less stress anyone of the drivers will be under so you don't end up with red hot drivers at the end of the night.


If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charlysays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2018 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

Build another pair of cubos and get the tops up high on stands or something tilted down to the rough centre of the dance area. Power ally the cubos and have done. 

The more cabs the less stress anyone of the drivers will be under so you don't end up with red hot drivers at the end of the night.




This is what I'll aim for re the tops. At the very least they'll be on stands but I'll see about some fixed angle adapters. Struggling to find any of the adjustable ones which will take more than 30kg. My experience is the 18nlw9400 can handle a 1.3kw amp channel just under clip without breaking a sweat... the 9000s I run each one off a bridged matrix UKP2100X and those likewise never break a sweat. If it was a dubstep night I would be a bit concerned about only having four subs but for the type of music being played I don't think the subs are going to struggle too much.
A mate of mine has a very similar set of four subs (gonna post them on here to see if anyone recognises the design- made by the mini rig guy years ago). I'm going to borrow one tonight and have a play around it, see if it couples with the cubos- might be more useful than the jbl reflex subs.

Re extra mids, I have a pair of JBL MP415 which I might put on my other pair of stands and use them as fillers half way down the hall, could that be a good plan?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2018 at 10:46pm
it really depends on how loud it needs to be.
if its an easy night that doesn't need to go loud, or there are noise/neighbourhood problems, you'll be fine.
For a 500 people dance event where theres no strict spl limit you should at least double that amount of boxes and avoid using mismatched cabs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote boots-hifi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2018 at 10:53pm
Id space the subs out, using the longest wave length theyre crossed at as a guide for distance (easy to work out)  to give a more even cover of sound rather than one mono block. I didnt notice any advantages with mine from coupling cubo's with each other, they dont benifit like other types of enclosures. We used to destroy a 300 cap pub with 4 1850 loaded cubo's. If you search my posts there are pictures of our old cubo set up.


Edited by boots-hifi - 07 November 2018 at 10:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 1:14am
...I changed my mind... build a pair of cubo-kicks and load them on top of the 4x cubos power allied and THEN the tops up high!!

THIS will give a much better sound. Sub you should be good with but for some presence gets a pair of cub-kicks. Give the music some moving energy!! Don't just shakes the glasses in the bar.. POUND THE DANCE FLOOR!!
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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