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lab.gruppen pdx series - any info. or impressions
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2019 at 12:02am
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by martinsson martinsson wrote:

I wonder how the wonderful old beast qsc ex4000 i once had was rated, i really liked it, it gave a sence of endless power, and unfortunatly also a sense of endless weight :)  really nice sounding aswell, used it in my home hifi setup, poor thing.





If you are looking at an old Lab Gruppen equal to the QSC EX 4000 in terms of relatively equal amount of power, RMS @ 4 ohms per channel, I would suggest the LAB 4000. A modern day Class D Amplifier with their standardize burst ratings would need to offer twice the burst ratings of an old amplifier (Class AB, B, H) offering an RMS rating to match its output.

The above is the most simplistic way of replacing an old RMS rated amplifier with a new Burst rated Amplifier.

Best Regards,



Judging an amplifier in watts, based on numbers, and not actual usuage, measurement, or trial by fire is just as simplistic.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2019 at 12:38am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by martinsson martinsson wrote:

I wonder how the wonderful old beast qsc ex4000 i once had was rated, i really liked it, it gave a sence of endless power, and unfortunatly also a sense of endless weight :)  really nice sounding aswell, used it in my home hifi setup, poor thing.





If you are looking at an old Lab Gruppen equal to the QSC EX 4000 in terms of relatively equal amount of power, RMS @ 4 ohms per channel, I would suggest the LAB 4000. A modern day Class D Amplifier with their standardize burst ratings would need to offer twice the burst ratings of an old amplifier (Class AB, B, H) offering an RMS rating to match its output.

The above is the most simplistic way of replacing an old RMS rated amplifier with a new Burst rated Amplifier.

Best Regards,



Judging an amplifier in watts, based on numbers, and not actual usuage, measurement, or trial by fire is just as simplistic.


Technically, it was judged by Rail Voltage. But unless someone has the tools to calculate RMS, Peak, Peak to Peak and the ability to understand a schematic, what I stated in my previous post is the most simplistic way to find a burst rated amplifier today equivalent to an RMS rated amplifier of yesterday.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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burkm View Drop Down
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Hi.

I am a new member of this forum Smile
Being somewhat late to the train I would like to revive the topic (last entry Nov 2019). 

Rms Wattage can normally be calculated by dividing the stated peak wattage by sqrt (2) or multiplying it by 0.707. The PDX3000 ist stated as a 3000 Watts peak into 4 Ohm amp, which then could be restated as an rms rated amp: 2120 Watt at 4 Ohm, 1230 at 8 Ohm and 1410 at 2 Ohm.
This would put it at 1060 Watt /per channel at 4 Ohm, 615 Watt /per channel at 8 Ohm and 705 Watt/per channel at 2 Ohm (+/- tolerances).

I just got one of those ominous and brand new Lab.Gruppen PDX3000 (230VAC version) amps right here, but haven't opened it yet to allow it to adapt gracefully to room temperature. Cross weight is been stated as 7.4 kg. net weight is 6.5 kg but it feels heavier to me Embarrassed. I will have a look inside the amp later on and listen to the noise level the built-in fans generate. Rear panel looks familiar (almost same as Behringer NX-6000D) as does the ventilation concept, as far as I can identify it. The packaging as delivered looks rather "cheap", the unit is wrapped in a foil type bag, an USB cable and a locking IEC power cord (3x0.75 mm²) plus 10A IEC Plug and a printed manual is included. 

Reading through the online description for the PDX3000 at the Lab.Gruppen web site looks familiar to the Behringer NX-6000D as it is internally already bridged, but power specs differ somewhat. It is supposed to be capable of driving a 2 Ohm load with reduced wattage (probably current limited) and supposed to be an "IDEEA" Class-D type amp, whatever IDEEA means. I couldn't find a "white paper" on this Lab.Gruppen specific term listed on their web site. Other "recent" amps in the Lab.Gruppen product portfolio seem to follow the same IDEEA concept. That differs from the Behringer description of their amp variants plus they can't handle a 2 Ohm load. They are almost 30% cheaper too... Wink

Unfortunately no reviews or tests are yet available.


 


Edited by burkm - 19 March 2020 at 3:19pm
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burkm View Drop Down
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As already promised I opened up the case and took some photos.
Unfortunately I don't have a direct comparison between this one and a Behringer NX-6000D because I don't have one, just a photo from someone else. If the current NX-6000D looks different, judging by the printed boards appearance I don't know.

The printed boards are all black laquered, the two main boards carry the name of Lab.Gruppen imprinted on them. Judging by a photo of the NX-6000D innards the SMPS power supply board an the right side (viewed from the amps front) looks to me at least "somewhat similar" but not the same, the power amp board section on the left seems to differ quite a bit and additionally carries two trim pots. The DSP is an Analog Devices ADSP-21261. All electrolytic capacitors visible seem to be specified for 105°C. I haven't powered it up yet, so I can't comment on noise of the installed fans.

Unfortunately I couldn't find a way of posting photos from my computer. If someone could give me a hint I would like to show some...





Edited by burkm - 19 March 2020 at 6:57pm
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imgbb.com works for me.

Copy and paste the link into your speakerplans message.
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burkm View Drop Down
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Thanx for your help Smile

If you need larger pictures, please follow the links.
Note: I'm still not yet familiar with the way those images have to be inserted. Thus it looks somewhat "chaotic"... 

First of all, as a comparison base, the NU/NX 6000 (version ?) innards:




https://ibb.co/5WDMJyD -
https://ibb.co/zx25PVB -
https://ibb.coCyTK41 -
https://ibb.co/sgV2QZq -
https://ibb.co/yY0dpd8 -
https://ibb.co/zxkG7hK -
https://ibb.co/CJWsFRq -
https://ibb.co/GcDYynv -
https://ibb.co/6JVbN08 -
https://ibb.co/3srxPfM -

https://ibb.co/fXswngC
https://ibb.co/8M2xx2F
https://ibb.co/QJcTL2h
https://ibb.co/8cBWgMD
https://ibb.co/5WDMJyD
https://ibb.co/zx25PVB
https://ibb.co/nCyTK41
https://ibb.co/sgV2QZq
https://ibb.co/yY0dpd8
https://ibb.co/zxkG7hK
https://ibb.co/CJWsFRq
https://ibb.co/GcDYynv
https://ibb.co/6JVbN08
https://ibb.co/3srxPfM
https://ibb.co/Wt3bmFS


Edited by burkm - 19 March 2020 at 6:55pm
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2020 at 1:49pm
There is an Amplifier Internals Thread Part II in which, you can post the guts of the amplifier there. Since you resurrect this thread from the dead, you should have no problem finding the Amplifier Internal Thread Part II as well.

If you have the proper tools, benching the amplifier under the given loads will be very helpful for those who are interested in the Lab Gruppen PDX.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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burkm View Drop Down
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Points: 11 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote burkm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2020 at 2:56pm
I thought it would be better served here in the specific thread for this amp (LG PDX3000) because little technical info is available right now about his one, just "rumours". I myself searched "endlessly" fore some more info about this amp and couldn't find any, nor could I locate a dealer where I live, who had it in stock. Almost all of them on the net had it listed with long delays...

Additionally: The other thread is rather "generic"... 
... and anyone searching about infos for that "new" Lab.Gruppen amp would probably be be lost searching for it, at least I were Smile

Example: I tried to find some pictures about the innards of the Behringer NU-6000D and/or NX-6000D, which is supposed to be somewhere in this forum or thread (?). I believe I had seen them (accidentally) before, but the search function didn't find anything...



Edited by burkm - 19 March 2020 at 3:21pm
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2020 at 5:07pm
You can throw it in the Amps Internal Thread Part II as well. It just makes things easier for those who are interested in the guts of an amplifier than scrounging around various threads trying to see what _______ looks like inside.

It is far more technical than this thread. You generally have more repair techs visiting the Amps Internal Thread Part II which, many discuss details about the components on the PC board.

I does not hurt to have the photos at two locations considering how many photos you took the time to upload.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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U.Viktor View Drop Down
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Looks same free-oscillating INUKE with scrap switch PSU

Embarrassing..


Edited by U.Viktor - 20 March 2020 at 5:57pm
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burkm View Drop Down
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Not really if you look closer Wink
Not only is the SMPS somewhat different, the power amp section is completely different. 


Edited by burkm - 20 March 2020 at 6:42pm
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APW View Drop Down
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Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Looks same free-oscillating INUKE with scrap switch PSU

Embarrassing..


FFS... give it a break, you are becoming very tiresome.

These are Lab's entry-level offering, they are NOT a premium tour grade amplifier and NOT advertised or priced as such.  They will almost certainly do the job they are designed to do and will be fairly reliable doing it. Lab DO offer premium grade products for those who require them… The PDX series is for users who don’t need tour grade equipment.

You constantly knock the inukes, Behringer are a budget brand and have shifted thousands of them world-wide, again they are NOT a tour grade product…however they work week-in week-out and have probably generated their combined owners/operators far more revenue than the likes of PKN could ever dream of….

….Some people cannot afford or want a Porsche; often a Skoda is all that’s required, either way they are both made by the WV group!!  

Edit: BTW, I’m not in any way knocking or anti PKN; I’m just tired of YOUR constant bashing of EVERTHING that isn’t PKN!


Edited by APW - 20 March 2020 at 9:16pm
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