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Lack of sizzle in midtops

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r.G View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 June 2017 at 9:47pm
Greetings, 

I've been running a small soundsystem for a few months now and this forum has helped greatly with advice and information. 

Now I'm not quite happy with the sound of my mids and tops. What I'm missing is the presence of that typical clave sound, in lack of better words, I'll call it sharpness. The sizzle in your ear, like someones poking your eardrum, but without any pain. Overall, I think my midtop section sounds pretty clear, but I lack the roughness and character of real reggae sound. Now, I don't know in which frequency area that is. My setup are two supers with 18 XB in it, a HD215 with Kappas and I'm kinda happy with the performance and sound of those. Mids are a 2x12" sealed, angled mids. I think it is a Celestion design, but not too sure. They're loaded with Fane Sorvereign 12-300. My top section consists of a BMS 4554 1,4" CD on the B&C ME90 horn. 

Now my question is, is the lack of sharpness down to the components itself, the cab design or can it be fixed with some EQing? 

Any advice welcome!

rg
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gen0me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 9:57pm
First take eq and check what frequency that is
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r.G View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote r.G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 10:09pm
I did try running a basic clave/woodblock sample through a frequency analyzer and boosted the affected area a bit, but that didn't do the trick.
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gen0me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 10:25pm
So you know what freq it is?
Any photos or screenshoots welcome

Edited by gen0me - 06 June 2017 at 10:26pm
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r.G View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote r.G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 10:29pm
Did it a while ago, so no screens. Atleast the clave sample I used was mainly around 2,4-2,8kHz area.
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gen0me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 10:37pm
You can fight with eq. Use spikes rather than wide bands. If wont help change driver.
What is clave?
Edit
I see you meant instruments. So rather wider spikes.

Edited by gen0me - 06 June 2017 at 10:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RiddimKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 10:44pm
I would add Four Bullet tweeters. Either the MNC eBay specials or if you can stretch your budget then some Beyma CP22.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2017 at 11:05pm
add a mild high shelf filter boost above 10ish khz.. + either a mild low shelf cut below 5ish khz/or wide Q parametric cut at about 3khz + a couple of narrow parametrics at resonances..

those bms drivers need quite some eq imho to sound ok.. naturally they dont lack "sharpness" imo
those horns are 80x60° dispersion, make sure to splay them properly to "avoid" comb filtering!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2017 at 12:00am
Maybe you miss the distortion of the 2" in the 2-3-4 khz range,lots of people actually like that ,that sizzling high hats which are mistaken sometimes for very high frequency.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote r.G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2017 at 9:24am
Originally posted by RiddimKid RiddimKid wrote:

I would add Four Bullet tweeters. Either the MNC eBay specials or if you can stretch your budget then some Beyma CP22.
I don't really want to upgrade to 5 ways. If necessary, I'd prefer to upgrade the top section to something more potent. I also don't think it's the top end lacking, it is probably what Sypa said:
\/

Originally posted by Sypa Sypa wrote:

Maybe you miss the distortion of the 2" in the 2-3-4 khz range,lots of people actually like that ,that sizzling high hats which are mistaken sometimes for very high frequency.
Yes, most likely. It is the hihat/clave frequency range that thunders in your ear. As mentioned before, I tested a clave sample, which was around the 2,6kHz region and it didn't deliver there, atleast not as I'd like it to. Tongue I know some people who can't stand that and think it is unpleasant, but personally I like the sizzle.

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

add a mild high shelf filter boost above 10ish khz.. + either a mild low shelf cut below 5ish khz/or wide Q parametric cut at about 3khz + a couple of narrow parametrics at resonances.. !
Would you mind explaining a bit? I'm running a behringer ultradrive. How do I apply shelving filters with it? Parametrics at resonances?

Thanks for the input so far



Edited by r.G - 07 June 2017 at 9:26am
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Sinai Sound View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinai Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2017 at 9:28am
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

add a mild high shelf filter boost above 10ish khz.. + either a mild low shelf cut below 5ish khz/or wide Q parametric cut at about 3khz + a couple of narrow parametrics at resonances..

those bms drivers need quite some eq imho to sound ok.. naturally they dont lack "sharpness" imo
those horns are 80x60° dispersion, make sure to splay them properly to "avoid" comb filtering!



That's near exactly what I've done, they tail off after about 6khz, so need some EQ to get that sound you want

If that's still not the sound you'd like, using a 4 bullets and a passive crossover, you could still have a 4 way sound as it wouldn't require an extra amp channel


Edited by Sinai Sound - 07 June 2017 at 9:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinai Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2017 at 9:33am
Higher Fidelity built these for our friends in Sheffield, 

They run it active, but with a crossover in the back you could run it passive




Edited by Sinai Sound - 07 June 2017 at 2:15pm
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