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Limitations of 18" Hog Scoop Design

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    Posted: 04 October 2017 at 2:54pm
As a learning project I've decided to design my own boxes, basing the design on the Hog Scoop 18", I was wondering what limitations these designs have?

I'm lucky enough to have access to a full workshop including wood steamers and CNCs through University. Given fairly limitless resources do you guys have any idea on how to refine the design?

My initial idea is to smooth out the transmission to give a more constant expansion, would this give any increased performance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 3:08pm
Limitless?

...then why not build the box one slice at a time!

On a large panel the size of the side panel of a hog draw the original horn path. THEN once done usinging a pencil smooth out all the internal corners and the entire path.

This is now your template for how you want it to look internally. Now make about 30 copies and glue them on top of each other... stick on side panels and you have a hog with a perfectly smooth horn path and you can dictate th expention as you go.

And use all your uni equipment to cut and copy all these panels. Yes it's a tone of wasted wood and very time consuming BUT you will end up with a near perfect response.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 5:15pm
The limitation is being a scoop so always going to get the dip between 50-70 hz from being rear loaded or like rog explains a 21" driver will move the dip lower at 40-50hz. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 6:26pm
If you were going to do that mini surely you'd be better to make a former the custom laminate your own curved ply from veneers?

How much advantage would a smooth path get you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR.junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

The limitation is being a scoop so always going to get the dip between 50-70 hz..

dip!? 18" scoop has boost at 50-70Hz!! deep is around 110Hz..  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 6:45pm
Sorry 70-90hz range is common to get dip with scoops from being out of phase.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

If you were going to do that mini surely you'd be better to make a former the custom laminate your own curved ply from veneers?

How much advantage would a smooth path get you?

Only if you were running it up higher would have been my thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

If you were going to do that mini surely you'd be better to make a former the custom laminate your own curved ply from veneers?

How much advantage would a smooth path get you?


Only if you were running it up higher would have been my thought.
smoother path means you can bend it to use as much of the cab as possible while still retaking good internal wall thickness so it doesn't vibrate


Edited by mini-mad - 04 October 2017 at 8:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

If you were going to do that mini surely you'd be better to make a former the custom laminate your own curved ply from veneers?

How much advantage would a smooth path get you?


Only if you were running it up higher would have been my thought.
smoother path means you can bend it to use as much of the cab as possible while still retaking good internal wall thickness so it doesn't vibrate

But you wouldn't likely gain much from it. If you were to do this to the hogs you would effectively be adding fillets in corners reducing volume and surface area as the hog uses almost all of its volume already so you likely just be raising the the lower roll off response and improving response above its intended frequency range. 


Edited by SouthwestCNC - 04 October 2017 at 9:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 10:07pm
The point I was making was you can choose the EXACT path you wanted.

Yes you could extend the lower cut off or upper cut off but he was asking what he could improve with the arsenal of tools at his disposal... I WAS trying to be helpful by say there's a lot he could improve, he just needs to pick what he wants to improve.

...i seem to be the only one suggesting any ideas as a pose to shooting other people down.


......sorry got a bit "ranty" there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2017 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

Sorry 70-90hz range is common to get dip with scoops from being out of phase.


Different Scoops, with different drivers, exhibit different characteristics..

There is no such thing as "common", when it comes to Scoops.

I've simmed, and tested many Scoops with many drivers, over quite a few years.
Wadding, amplifier, speaker cable, processing all change cab/driver combo performance.

As regards to 70-90hz dip, I often notch down 60hz, 90-100, as I prefer smoother sound..
If cab is not wadded..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2017 at 12:14am
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

The point I was making was you can choose the EXACT path you wanted.

Yes you could extend the lower cut off or upper cut off but he was asking what he could improve with the arsenal of tools at his disposal... I WAS trying to be helpful by say there's a lot he could improve, he just needs to pick what he wants to improve.

...i seem to be the only one suggesting any ideas as a pose to shooting other people down.


......sorry got a bit "ranty" there.

Apologies i didnt mean to come across as shouting the man down. It think i confined myself to thinking he wanted to keep the volume of the hog the same. he didn't actually specify that so did jump to conclusions a bit, apologies for that. 

I should have said you could smooth the path but you would need to increase the overall volume to maintain the same horn path volume. 
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