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Limiting pro line 3000 on an ultradrive

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Aidanphillips145 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 November 2018 at 2:21pm
Right, so I have an event coming up soon and want to run my 2x void v1000 of a pro line 3000 in 4ohm bridge so I can have a spare input on my xover, I want to be certain I'm not going to clip them or over drive them but still sound sweet, my last event running them @8ohm stereo I ran into clipping a few times (never happend to me before) so would like some advice on what to do with the limitor, I had the threshold set to -24db and the release to 4000ms and then brought the output gain on the xover down til the limit light was flickering on and off, (about -3db) then further on encountered clipping so brought it down further again, any advice (in simple terms I'll find easier to understand please aha) would be greatly appreciated, cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 2:37pm
It will reach clip with 0.77v input signal so measure the voltage output of the channel of the Ultradrive with a multimeter and set the limiter to below this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 2:53pm
You're probably not even hitting the limiter threshold so what you need to do is turn up the input gain on the DCX so there is a higher signal level running through the whole device and then lower the limiter threshold(not the output level) until you get the limiting behaviour you need.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spongebob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 3:23pm
The limiters on an ultradrive don't go low enough to stop clipping on the proline 3000

You will need an inline XLR attenuator between the output of the ultradrive and the input of the proline to stop clipping let alone have a sensible limiter on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Aidanphillips145 Aidanphillips145 wrote:

... want to run my 2x void v1000 of a pro line 3000 in 4ohm bridge so I can have a spare input on my xover…


maybe i got you wrong... you mean you are bridging the amp to 4 ohm because so you can use only one OUTPUT from xover to feed the bass amp?
if that's the reason i see a parallel switch on the back that should feed both channels from one input in stereo operation, failing that i would use a split cable for that instead of hammering a cheap amp to 2 ohm at sub freqs.

on the back of the amp i also see that they spec 2 ohm stero operation but only 8 ohm bridge, not 4 ohm bridge. food for thoughts...

fixed xlr attenuators are the way to go, a temporary diy solution in a hurry could be rolling down input attenuators on amp until the dcx limiters are effective and then make it tamper proof with a wood panel in fornt of the pots (or plexiglass if you fancy), just leave the vents open!
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Aidanphillips145 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aidanphillips145 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 9:20pm
Yes would be bridging the amp to 4ohm for the extra output on the xover, now you say that it makes more sense to switch it in parallel. I have a few xlr splitters but have heard there not the best to use cause it weakens the signal chain, that was my first thought.

And with the xlr attenuators, what's the ideal one I would need for my purpose. I've come to realise the way I was shown to set limitors on the dcx seems wrong, if you could explain to someone like me who's got a basic understanding of it id appreciate it. Just really don't wnna blow any drivers and I'm stressing aha.
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Aidanphillips145 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aidanphillips145 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 9:23pm
This sounds more like it, when you say the input gain, do you mean the one that would be on the first page of your selected output, the one before the xover frequencies etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aidanphillips145 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 9:25pm
Could you reccomend one to me, and would I need two of these, one before the xover and one before the amp? And then would you just go about setting the limitor as you would any othe, the attenuator is there to lower the threshold?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2018 at 4:21pm
DCX Limiting sounds horrible, don't use it.

Would have thought simplest route, would be external 1U compressor/limiter.

For 8 ohm stereo,  set limiter at -1db, fast attack.

However, if amp will be in bridge mode, you would want limiting kicking in at approx -2db.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2018 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by Aidanphillips145 Aidanphillips145 wrote:

This sounds more like it, when you say the input gain, do you mean the one that would be on the first page of your selected output, the one before the xover frequencies etc.


i meant the input attenuator (it's not gain) on the amplifier.
your goal is to limit the output voltage from dcx into the amp, so lowering in or out gains on the dcx would just mean you need an higher input level (from the mixer) to reach the treshold, but will not reduce the output voltage at which the limiter kicks in.

lowering the input on the amp will lower it AFTER the dcx limiter, so would reduce the treshold at which the dcx limits, but leaves you exposed to the risk of someone rising the level on the amps, hence the panel suggestion.


putting xlr pads like Shure A15AS between amps and dcx would obtain the same goal. you need one for mono operation and two for stereo, and you should not need one before the dcx.

you are right on the longer release setting for the dcx limiter; i would limit 2 dBs under clip if running 8 ohm stereo or 3/4 dBs if you really bridge it to 4 ohm - i would not.
using the parallel switch should be the more straightforward way, but there's usually no harm in linking up to 3 or 4 amps to one dsp output, so if it doesn't work use splitters without fear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2018 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

DCX Limiting sounds horrible, don't use it.

Would have thought simplest route, would be external 1U compressor/limiter.

For 8 ohm stereo,  set limiter at -1db, fast attack.

However, if amp will be in bridge mode, you would want limiting kicking in at approx -2db.

Old Behringer Composer MDX2200, has best sound of all their kit.


hahaha didn't see this, i was a little more conservative with the limiter,
if you know your boxes can take the proline close to clip the whole night rise the the treshold, if you are not sure start low and rise it slowly if you find your boxes still have more to give.
but the dcx limiter will not guarantee protection while allowing the maximum performance from the drivers like better limiters do, you have to leave something on the table to be safe.

i agree that a compressor could do a better work, but tamper protection panel again… someone could easily do damages with it .
dcx limiters are allready there and harder to mess with. i see more sense in stacking the money and upgrading the dcx later
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2018 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Jo bg Jo bg wrote:

 
dcx limiters are allready there and harder to mess with. i see more sense in stacking the money and upgrading the dcx later


Honestly, I have had DCX, and the limiters sound awful.

MDX2200 costs about £40 off ebay.

Will save your drivers if configured properly, and you won't hear it working.. Wink
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