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kipman725 ![]() Registered User ![]() Joined: 02 September 2020 Location: Warrington Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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Interesting, sounds good at a distance but seems like along with the harshness up-close there is a loss of the top end. Seems like you could cover a very large crowd with this so perhaps not a major problem? or you could just use two of the top box design with one tilted downwards? or is it as simple as the EQ is wrong on the bottom box? it seems like the harshness starts as soon as you enter predominantly its coverage.
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Elliot Thompson ![]() Old Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5114 |
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The first thing that comes to mind is the dispersion differential between your High Mids & Low Mids. The High Mids may offer a narrower dispersion hence, the overwhelming amount of SPL in the High Mids as you move closer to the cabinets.
Since the bottom box sees two boundaries (the ground and the box sitting above it), it is not usual to have a box positioned between two boundaries to sound smoother.
Bear in mind you are using horns not direct radiators. The majority of Horns always leave their sonic imprint on the sound. So it is going to be very difficult, to achieve a very smooth response, in the High Mids, all the way to the Treble region without, a good dose of equalisation.
Best Regards,
Edited by Elliot Thompson - 12 April 2021 at 12:09am |
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Elliot Thompson
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doober ![]() Young Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 January 2006 Location: Cornwall UK Status: Offline Points: 1118 |
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I don't think my phone captured the full effects, it is quite old as was a cheap one when new. When I tested the cabs I found the sound was very pleasant and well balanced when I was close to the ground right in front of them. This corresponds with the position they will be relative to a standing audience when deployed at the correct height. The point of the lower box is that it uses the same components but has a larger vertical coverage, and therefore lower SPL at any point in front of it. The plan is to get more consistent coverage from front to back of the audience. Both boxes use the same processing and therefore EQ, I would prefer to keep it this way. Having taken another look at the plots I made I'm fairly certain this will be fine, although getting the height and tilt of the boxes correct is going to be crucial. |
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doober ![]() Young Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 January 2006 Location: Cornwall UK Status: Offline Points: 1118 |
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There is a huge dispersion differential, top box total is 5 degrees, bottom box is nearly 40 degrees. Both boxes are intended to be asymmetric with a gradual increase in dispersion from top to bottom. The original plan was to build a single box, this is how I designed the curve of the mid and high horns, with a gradual increase in curve. After considering the practicalities of a single box with 24 drivers in it, probably a 4 person lift and a very inconvenient size for van loading and storage, I decided to split it into 2 boxes. I really don't mid using EQ within reason. The processors I use have 6 bands available per output, and a good selection of filter types. My aim is always to get good results with a maximum of 2 parametric and a shelf per output. I have found with other boxes that trying to use a lot of filters to flatten the response can end up sounding worse than an uneven response. |
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Bams ![]() Young Croc ![]() Joined: 08 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 600 |
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I have no input technicalwise whatsoever but just want to give a thumbsup regarding the fact you take us on a journey regarding the development of this system. thank you for this. really like the looks of it hanging in a rig. wouldn't mind having it in front of me dancing to it.
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toastyghost ![]() The 10,000 Points Club ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10894 |
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If you want to put the finishing touches on an excellent project, I would recommend putting away SMAART, putting away this thread and some of the baffling suggestions in it, and spending a few afternoons with cups of tea, your measurement mic and interface, the obscenely good REW manual and papers from Charlie Hughes’ Excelsior Audio site and/or the DIYRM Facebook page.
Start with learning what coherence is, how to window a measurement, how to spot room modes and reflections, and how to derive the minimum phase components of a system - those are the only bits you can fix with IIR EQ. You can probably pick up a few things on measuring polar or directional data while you’re at it. Your front room or garden in ground plane are fine for this. Once you’re done reading, you’ll be on the path to learning the most useful thing for box tuning - how to ask the analyser the right questions, and how to know what data that you get back is useful or not. |
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doober ![]() Young Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 January 2006 Location: Cornwall UK Status: Offline Points: 1118 |
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Good points there Toastyghost. I'm familiar with the terms you mention, but I really do need to understand them thoroughly. I've now got loads of plots to look at whilst learning, and hope there will be some lightbulb moments soon!
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doober ![]() Young Croc ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 January 2006 Location: Cornwall UK Status: Offline Points: 1118 |
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2 Years into the project....and.....they're still not finished! They have been out entertaining the masses though. They just need some grilles and a few little tweaks.
![]() I'm very happy with them, and band engineers have been very complimentary. They seem to attract attention with their slightly unusual design on show due to the lack of grilles. The first outing had a fair amount of cross wind. The mid did drift around a bit, as expected, but there was very little phaseyness compared to my previous setups. The coverage of the crowd was good but I do need to take more measurements outside to work out the best tilt angles for crowd coverage vs complaints from local residents. |
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