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Long term dry hire price

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Shadmank View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 March 2024 at 12:42am
Greetings

Anybody able to offer insight into what a fair price would be to hire some kit long-term?

The items in question are simply a pair of 18 reflex subs. Nothing special just those old CVA cabs with 1850 drivers, but imo they sound nice if run right. 

One one hand I’m renting to a friend and a small independent venue, so I don’t want to overcharge. Also i don’t want to charge as much as a single hire. If it’s long term and I don’t have to deliver/collect that makes life much easier for me. 

On the other hand, they will be getting used every weekend and most weekdays, often by unsupervised DJs, often without a sound tech present, and with likely some less than ideal limiting (I use an Avc2 but don’t have a spare)

My thought is to have a ‘fry em you buy em’ clause for the drivers, and a low cost rolling contract from which they are free to use them 7 days a week in whatever context. For context this is Manchester UK, if that affects regional pricing criteria.

I realise that prices are subjective, but hoping I can find a guide price that falls midway between professional and amicable. Would £30 a month for 12 months be reasonable? Any more I feel perhaps I would be better off recommending they buy their own..
Let's all have a nice cup of tea
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2024 at 1:55am
Originally posted by Shadmank Shadmank wrote:

they will be getting used every weekend and most weekdays, often by unsupervised DJs, often without a sound tech present, and with likely some less than ideal limiting. Would £30 a month for 12 months be reasonable?
 
Not unless you just love losing money, without proper non defeatable limiting these drivers won't last a week. You would have to be nuts to agree to a situation like this, no way you should put yourself in a position where you are on the hook to keep a rig operational when you have no control over it. A rental like this must have a deposit up front, it must go out as a package with suitable processing, and there has to be a clause that the customer covers all maintenance/repair costs incurred at thier venue. If they won't agree to that but still want the speakers they should buy them outright. 
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catalin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote catalin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2024 at 7:41am
Don't want to be mean,but for that kind of money,I wouldn't rent a poster.

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Bams View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2024 at 8:38am
Do you have a pair of drivers stocked? what if they blow them? renting is mostly about being taken care of, getting service and reliability. 
Are the expecting to have that kind of service? 

the only local dryhires with the same background we ever did was for pubs and clubs who weren't large enough to have their own techs. whenever something broke we were expected to fix or swap it before the next opening day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote monkeypuzzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2024 at 9:06am
In the late 90's I was putting system into venues in Manchester for very low prices. I did it because I did't have the confidence to ask for more, I also just wanted to get the kit out. There was also a "helping out good venues" edge to it but i was never able to invest in better equipment or repair any breakages from the funds I got from hires. 

Clubs in Manchester (and nationally) are really struggling to keep open and need every penny these days but at that price, even after a years hire, you won't be able to replace a driver. If its a venue that you love, have a great relationship with and really want to support, I understand your thinking but these things need to be sustainable. At the prices I was charging all those years ago, I was taking work away from others with systems that were actually trying to make a living from the game.

A good guide would be "what would it cost to hire something in last min if a driver gets popped" £30 per week would be a little more reasonable, thats still only a couple of pints these days and I know the venues have massive overheads but if they're open often and busy then they should be able to afford it. The other option is that they pay a small amount and tell the people putting gigs on that there is a surcharge for using the system, that way you get money direct from the promotors so the venue doesn't incur all the costs.
blah blah blah blah blah......
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wires View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2024 at 2:13pm
At that price of £30 a month; just sell him the speakers.
Do a payment for the cost of them over 3 months or something, walk away not having to worry about them.



Edited by wires - 06 March 2024 at 2:14pm
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DMorison View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2024 at 2:18pm
+1 to Conanski & Bams' warnings about repairs/liability etc.

Even with a "you fry em you buy em" clause, in the event of that happening you can bet you'll be the first person they call for help for gear to cover them till they get their own replacements arranged. So, if you're not making enough to cover that kind of thing, then it's not worth it for unsupervised use.

In the corporate/commercial side of things, rentals tend to scale up from day rates as follows:
Weekly rate  = 3x day rate.
Monthly rate = 3 x weekly.

So figure out your minimum charge to be worth it for a day and work up from there.

A quick google suggests commercial rates are around £30-45 per box per day, obviously you're free to discount down from that a bit if your gear isn't quite as pro and/or they're good friends, but £30 a month seems waaaaay too low.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VECTORDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2024 at 2:56pm
Min $150 USD  Event and that would be Low Ball.....Blows My mind how cheap Sound Guys cut the price and Kick each other in the Head....Here in Maine USA a Friend gets $2500 or more a Day/Night for Sound and an Ex- Friend is at $65 a Day/Night....Some People are just Dumb....Gear is going to get Broken and/or Stolen....Need to pay for Transport, Helpers, Insurance, and Taxes....VECTORSONICS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2024 at 9:58pm
A legal binding contract will cost more than the rental price for the year. Don't forget Insurance.

You're starting at the wrong end with a price first.....
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2024 at 4:36am
Originally posted by DMorison DMorison wrote:

In the corporate/commercial side of things, rentals tend to scale up from day rates as follows:
Weekly rate  = 3x day rate.
Monthly rate = 3 x weekly.

This right here.
That would put my monthy rental rate at $600/box for example which is right in line with other suppliers in my area.
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Shadmank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadmank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2024 at 1:56am
Thanks everyone for all the solid advice.

@Catalin not mean at all pal, just sayin how u see it. Appreciate the straight talking!

To clarify further, i guess my line to reinstate is i would not be liable for any damages. If all is well, hiring @£30p/m they are paying £360 a year for a pair of cabs that do nothing else at present and cost me £500 to buy. If they fry the cones, they pay out another £500 immediately. Cabs arent being used elsewhere, they are currently a TV stand LOL

For contrast.. 3x3xday hire would be £50x3x3 so £450 a month. If it was for a corporate gig then sounds right, yes 100% and the rest. As its a small independent venue, this is the difference between survival and not, living wages vs minimum wages. I paid £500 for the cabs, can i really in good conscience charge £5400 a year for £500 worth of sound reinforcement??

@Wires makes an excellent point just sell them the boxes. Maybe yes, but I am happy to have them in my collection, and if they make what they cost me a year, isnt this a good arrangement for both me and the venue owner?

To iterate again, if the drivers get damaged thats an instant cost to the user. Its a way of keeping costs artificially low when confidence in the user to look after them is high. Im also not trying to undercut professional businesses in the area. Just would like to help out a friend with my boxes gathering dust, in a way that makes sense for both of us. At full corporate price, they may as well carry on using what set up they have as this is sufficient (1x rhino scoop). Given that theres a gap of current use and current need though, we just want to help each other out Smile
Let's all have a nice cup of tea
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wires View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2024 at 9:17am
Originally posted by Shadmank Shadmank wrote:


@Wires makes an excellent point just sell them the boxes. Maybe yes, but I am happy to have them in my collection, and if they make what they cost me a year, isnt this a good arrangement for both me and the venue owner?

To iterate again, if the drivers get damaged thats an instant cost to the user. Its a way of keeping costs artificially low when confidence in the user to look after them is high. Im also not trying to undercut professional businesses in the area. Just would like to help out a friend with my boxes gathering dust, in a way that makes sense for both of us. At full corporate price, they may as well carry on using what set up they have as this is sufficient (1x rhino scoop). Given that theres a gap of current use and current need though, we just want to help each other out Smile

Not really good deal for you, no. Great for them.

After a few months of abuse and venue grime, you most likely won’t want them back in your collection.
Plus if they aren’t getting used by you and sat around then just sell them to them, maybe with the caveat that you would buy them back if they ever wanted to move them on.

If it was an item that was in regular hire stock then I agree with the standard pricing mentioned.
As it’s a friend and not something that goes out at all then they won’t want to pay that, and you won’t want to charge that.

I’d say £100 a month for a friend would be fair (25 a week is a bargain).

In my experience venues that hire long term and have kit stop working expect the hirer to fix it, unless it’s obvious damage.
Blowing a driver is never viewed as their fault unfortunately, and a sure way to sour a friendship when you push the matter.

Personally I would just sell the boxes to them and work out a payment plan… or better yet; tell them to go to the bank/credit card company and take a loan out.


Edited by wires - 08 March 2024 at 9:18am
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