Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Newbie Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Matching speaker ratings to amp power
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Matching speaker ratings to amp power
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Grubbah View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 14 July 2011
Location: Portsmouth
Status: Offline
Points: 2004 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grubbah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Matching speaker ratings to amp power
    Posted: 08 March 2013 at 2:50pm
Proper novice question here, but its driving me mad...

I was under the impression of one thing, just read and article and maybe the guys wrong, but ive heard a few contradicting things now and would love to just get this cleared up.

So lets say my speaker is 300W RMS with a program power of 600W @ 8ohms.

What would be the ideal amplifier power at 8ohms?

I understand about underpowered amplifiers clipping and excessive power are the 2 main causes of speaker failure. I also understand the difference between RMS and program power.

My thoughts would be between 400 - 600W so to allow for headroom in the amplifier and respond more to the the program power rating of the speaker as program material being amplifier isn't continuous pure tones...
Back to Top
Radeon View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 22 November 2011
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 277 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2013 at 2:57pm
anything between 300w and 600w RMS ,depending on a program material and headroom requriements
Back to Top
Grubbah View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 14 July 2011
Location: Portsmouth
Status: Offline
Points: 2004 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grubbah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2013 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Radeon Radeon wrote:

anything between 300w and 600w RMS ,depending on a program material and headroom requriements


So, bass heavy dance music... more towards 300W.... live music applications... more towards 600W?
Back to Top
duck1 View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 22 February 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duck1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2013 at 3:03pm
Depends what you're going to be doing with the system. A home cinema system will probably be ok with an amp rated at the RMS power of the speakers (or less if it's not ragged).

If it's for party/events, then it makes no sense if the amp has to work flat out all night. Twice the speaker's RMS power is probably a good start.
Back to Top
Grubbah View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 14 July 2011
Location: Portsmouth
Status: Offline
Points: 2004 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grubbah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2013 at 3:10pm
Mainly live music, though some dance too.

Im trying to build up an amp rack at the moment, and its quite a challenging scenario on my bass section. 4 x 8ohm bins, in total, 2400W RMS or 4800W program... cost variation in amplifiers around the 2 values is quite a lot.
Back to Top
duck1 View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 22 February 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duck1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2013 at 3:14pm
Maybe look for an amp that can give you 2k per channel at 4ohms or a pair that will do similar in bridge mode.

What's your budget for bass amps?
Back to Top
Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 02 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2013 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Grubbah Grubbah wrote:

Proper novice question here, but its driving me mad...

I was under the impression of one thing, just read and article and maybe the guys wrong, but ive heard a few contradicting things now and would love to just get this cleared up.

So lets say my speaker is 300W RMS with a program power of 600W @ 8ohms.

What would be the ideal amplifier power at 8ohms?

I understand about underpowered amplifiers clipping and excessive power are the 2 main causes of speaker failure. I also understand the difference between RMS and program power.

My thoughts would be between 400 - 600W so to allow for headroom in the amplifier and respond more to the the program power rating of the speaker as program material being amplifier isn't continuous pure tones...

You would be better off with  800 watts if you want to achieve  600 watts from a loudspeaker without any distortion stemming from the amplifier being overdriven. 

Best Regards, 
Elliot Thompson
Back to Top
Conanski View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 26 January 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2544 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2013 at 4:37pm
The thing about speakers and amps is that regardless what final combination you come up with you need to leave some unused headroom in both. Everybody knows that overdriving amplifiers is bad but fewer realize that pushing a speaker right to it's rated limit is just as bad. IMO if you want some durability from the gear you should "writeoff" the last 3db of potential output the speakers can generate on paper, because in practice it's probably gong to be soaked up by power compression anyway.. which is heating of the voice coil that raises impedance and decreases output. Driving a speaker into power compression repeatedly and for long periods of time is a roulette game, it's pushing the speaker right to the edge of destruction and it's only a matter of time before they give up the ghost.
Ideally you want an amp that can deliver the peak rating of the speakers but you want to limit it to something less than that depending upon the application, for live sound target the program rating and for DJs target the continuous rating. That means you need amps with built-in adjustable limiters or you want an external processor with adjustable limiters.


Edited by Conanski - 08 March 2013 at 4:42pm
Back to Top
Grubbah View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 14 July 2011
Location: Portsmouth
Status: Offline
Points: 2004 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grubbah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2013 at 4:54am
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

The thing about speakers and amps is that regardless what final combination you come up with you need to leave some unused headroom in both. Everybody knows that overdriving amplifiers is bad but fewer realize that pushing a speaker right to it's rated limit is just as bad. IMO if you want some durability from the gear you should "writeoff" the last 3db of potential output the speakers can generate on paper, because in practice it's probably gong to be soaked up by power compression anyway.. which is heating of the voice coil that raises impedance and decreases output. Driving a speaker into power compression repeatedly and for long periods of time is a roulette game, it's pushing the speaker right to the edge of destruction and it's only a matter of time before they give up the ghost.
Ideally you want an amp that can deliver the peak rating of the speakers but you want to limit it to something less than that depending upon the application, for live sound target the program rating and for DJs target the continuous rating. That means you need amps with built-in adjustable limiters or you want an external processor with adjustable limiters.


Thankyou! This was the answer i was looking for.

Thanks to everyone else input too!
Back to Top
jngggggggg View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 27 April 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 88 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jngggggggg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2017 at 5:37am
a bit of revival on this one but can anyone explain WHY there is a separate standard for when to spec a amp for program vs rms based on sound? (ie above, Conanski states to use rms for djs and program for live).

my context is bass music (dj) and live vocals. 
according to my sound reinforcement handbook (G.Davis / R.Jones) i am supposed to use program..
Back to Top
gen0me View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 20 February 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 999 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2017 at 5:56am
Live music does not use mastering. Not in the studio meaning ofc.
Back to Top
jngggggggg View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 27 April 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 88 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jngggggggg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2017 at 6:09am
But as stated above, for mastered music with some live vocals, it would still be preferred to power each speaker with more than RMS to allow for Headroom on the amp if budget allows correct? Or is it just simply not necessary? Maybe I'm just overcomplicating things
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 6.750 seconds.