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Methods of reducing driver temperature

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Requiem View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 October 2023 at 3:41am
Hiya guys,


I've just upgraded all the drivers in my martin audio WSX from the ancient dls801 to B&C 18tbx100 and loving the results sound and output wise, but noticed a lot of heat being given off- so much so that I had to hold back on output. Access panels (wooden) were hot to the touch before very long. Pretty sure the cabs had loads yet to give.

Obviously I know the solution to this would be to replace access panels with aluminium heatsync panels, but as the handles are mounted in the panels its not a straightforward task. I did, however, buy a 5mm aluminium sheet to do a dummy run to test results, but if im going to go ahead with that method I guess it would be more cost effective to just go ahead with the whole lot at once and get them CNCd If I can find somewhere to do it.

I replaced the drivers (obviously with the required spacer ring) and replaced the wadding as it was beforehand, picture attached, and was wondering whether removal of some of the wadding, say 50%, would help dissipate the heat better as there would be less insulation? or would this be a negligible difference?

Also pointers on the heatsync solution would be handy. Thickness of metal, how easy it would be to CNC and so on, ive heard differing opinions on it. Or any other opinions on solution would be great. 

Thanks guys

www.requiem-soundsystem.com


Custom Martin Audio WSX, USB & CSG Soundsystem based in Bristol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 5:06am
i don't really have the experience to comment, but from a physics perspective removal of wadding would definitely help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KDW32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 5:54am
What DSP settings are you using? If your hpf is too high you could be creating a thermal build up? Martin recommend 22hz LR 24 that helps with the venting  

I've used WSX B&C loaded a few times in large blocks, full pelt never had a problem with drivers overheating even in euro heatwaves. 


Edited by KDW32 - 17 October 2023 at 6:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 6:05am
Making some aluminum hatches isn't a problem at all.

If I was to do this upgrade, I would have them drawn up with CAD.
Find a place which can cut the hatches with water jet. Then you have the outside all ready to go.
Then you need to have them machined. CNC will be the way to go.
Cutouts for handles, bolt holes and maybe some cooling fins will be easy to do. Just need to make sure that the aluminium doesnt warp when removing material from one side only. Maybe adding some braces on the backside when machining is done. 

This is a easy task to do, but it ain't cheap at all. 
Aluminum in the required thickness is expensive. Cutting and machining also.

I could make them for you, but to be honest I think the price would be too steep for this upgrade to make sense.
How many do you need ?


Edited by FOO - 17 October 2023 at 6:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Requiem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by KDW32 KDW32 wrote:

What DSP settings are you using? If your hpf is too high you could be creating a thermal build up? Martin recommend 22hz LR 24 that helps with the venting  

I've used WSX B&C loaded a few times in large blocks, full pelt never had a problem with drivers overheating even in euro heatwaves. 


I think the hpf was set to 35hz so this may have been the issue! I didn't realise that this was the case? Have you got a link or more info to these martin recommendations?

Originally posted by FOO FOO wrote:

Making some aluminum hatches isn't a problem at all.

If I was to do this upgrade, I would have them drawn up with CAD.
Find a place which can cut the hatches with water jet. Then you have the outside all ready to go.
Then you need to have them machined. CNC will be the way to go.
Cutouts for handles, bolt holes and maybe some cooling fins will be easy to do. Just need to make sure that the aluminium doesnt warp when removing material from one side only. Maybe adding some braces on the backside when machining is done. 

This is a easy task to do, but it ain't cheap at all. 
Aluminum in the required thickness is expensive. Cutting and machining also.

I could make them for you, but to be honest I think the price would be too steep for this upgrade to make sense.
How many do you need ?


I would be interested in the price for this. It would be for 18 panels so not a short run. Could you quote me? 
www.requiem-soundsystem.com


Custom Martin Audio WSX, USB & CSG Soundsystem based in Bristol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 6:12pm
Let me get back to you on that.
I need some measurements to start with.
And maximum allowed thickness of the hatch.
If you have a plan of the enclosure or just the hatch, that could do too. 


But at first try out the HPF suggested. 
From my extensive experience with Turbosound TSW718 I found out that 25hz HPF 12dB/oct was golden. That enclosure doesn't do much below 45hz but it helps cooling alot. 

So its not total BS with the 22hz suggested above. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 8:31pm
In my experience the TBX is a driver which easily gets hot , any newer options from bnc and others are far superior in that regard. Hhad tbx in hogs without grills so could check and the dustcap would be quite hot always , unlike obertons which replaced them they would get warmer only when pushed really hard.
Anyway aluminium hatch is a cool option .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 9:01pm
The wider the bandwidth the cab is being asked to reproduce the hotter it will run. If the signal content happens to be centered where the impedance is low then more power will be dissipated in the driver. Just also keep in mind that if your hitting the limiters, the average poer increases.
Ali panels will help but check the above first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 9:41pm
so much of the hatch is going to be handles have you considered just cutting an aluminium panel into the wooden hatch between the handles. will be much smaller in area and therefore can be made out of thinner aluminium (6mm or possibly 4mm with fins on the inside) - which will have less thermal resistance. much cheaper than making the whole hatch out of thicker aluminium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infrasound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 11:03pm
Lots of good comments here. Helpfully, this is actually my day job (albeit thermals on fighter jets rather than speakers)

You will find limited success with bolting on a plain aluminium plate, and the results will perhaps not be as you hope or worth the effort. The reason being that the vent of the speaker will find it very easy to transfer the heat to the plate due to the velocity of air (Assuming it's close to the plate) transferring energy effectively. This will lead to a hot plate, but the transfer off this to ambient will be very limited. This plate either needs a similar source of air velocity or well sized fins to enable convection cooling.

This is why previous tests with lab subs and flat plates have seen mediocre results. This is also why some Void products that have heatsinks use high density fins (not the best choice for thermal transfer, but they were balancing with packaging and use conditions) on the exterior.


The problem is actually relatively trivial from a simulation point of view. If you have any friends who are engineers then they may be able to whip up some results for you with some excel magic.


In terms of what I recommend - I would definitely skip the flat plate. Get in touch with Fischer Electronik. Their application engineers are excellent to work with and will be able to point you towards their most suitable aluminium extrusions for your application and likely cut you a good deal for B2B. I suspect they will choose something from this range:


These will need post processing through being sawn to size, and counterbored holes drilled for mounting. At a pinch you can do it with a hacksaw and a pillar drill. 


A couple of notes, more fin length is the most beneficial for performance (as long as you can protect them), followed by vertical orientation, correct density of fins and then increased thickness of plate. Of course if you can direct air flow at the plate this will provide massive gains, eg a fan. 

You will need a way to define and measure voice coil or magnet temperatures. Both to quantify the target and measure improvements.


I hope this helped! Feel free to ask me any questions directly.



Edited by infrasound - 17 October 2023 at 11:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infrasound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 11:10pm
Finally, removing the wadding from the back panel will help a little (since this is the only panel which reliably sees air on the other side when it's in the middle of a stack). Removing from next to other panels will see benefit too, but to a lesser extent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2023 at 11:42pm
easy to fit some external fans when required. mains or battery powered. or rectify a tiny bit of the audio signal to power the fan.
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