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Methods of reducing driver temperature

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snowflake View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2023 at 10:30pm
you could put a big coil of copper tube inside the rear chamber with an inlet and outlet on the access panel. then you have the option of blowing either air or water through the coil. maybe precool your air through another coil in a water butt. easy to measure the temp difference between the inlet and the outlet and the flow rate to calculate how much heat you are removing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucasdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2023 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

Maybe it's possible to attach a duct over the VC hole in the magnet to vent out of the back panel? Not to the diameter of the small hole circle as such a duct would impact on the internal volume too much.


Additionally, a small DC fan could be used over the aperture in the back panel to quickly disperse the hot air. A 12v fan could be battery powered, an 8 cell AA pack is easy to find and wire. The fan doesnt want to pull a vacuum, so if its spaced slightly off the panel it should provide the benefit without affecting the motor motion.

Yup, was thinking the same thing. A stiff plastic pipe, (like a small piece of drainpipe, what is the centre vent hole size, about 50mm there? To fit snuggly against that hole, and vented out the access panel? The actual panel hole would need to be precisely measured and cut, but cant see why it wouldn't work? 


Edited by Lucasdude - 20 October 2023 at 2:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2023 at 8:46pm
Isnt this what volt speakers radial technology is supposed to help with? Any idea how well it works?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infrasound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2023 at 9:37pm
From what I know the realhorns use a chiller unit, so with a suitable coolant it's entirely feasible that they use sub 0 degree coolant. I have seen images of a large 3ph refrigerant unit. Bonkers.

Don't know what RC1 use, although I would be interested to see. I would hazard a guess at a radial coolant jacket, as is common in BL motors / EVs alongside some heat exchangers and a nice big fan Star

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teadub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2023 at 7:47am
Scott hinson's sub of doom is springing to mind for me. Maybe have a look at that design, in the meantime though could you cut/build a port on each hatch that was tuned slightly out of band? Seems like a very small port gives more turbulence which itself aids air exchange. Pretty sure the output of the ports in Scot's sub of doom we're pretty much inaudible and just there for cooling
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucasdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2023 at 10:12am
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

Isnt this what volt speakers radial technology is supposed to help with? Any idea how well it works?


I had 4 of the 15s when they came out about 30 years ago. I think they were 3853. They looked great, and had a nice tone to them, but I couldn't make them work for sub duty. I tried them in a few different cabs ( all I had to work from back then was "Loudspeaker design and construction" from Eminence.) Maybe the design just didn't allow for as much cone area as traditional designs, and I think the 500w claim from a 3" coil was a little unrealistic at the time. My PD1550s were way better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2023 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by Teadub Teadub wrote:

Scott hinson's sub of doom is springing to mind for me. Maybe have a look at that design, in the meantime though could you cut/build a port on each hatch that was tuned slightly out of band? Seems like a very small port gives more turbulence which itself aids air exchange. Pretty sure the output of the ports in Scot's sub of doom we're pretty much inaudible and just there for cooling


one way to make ports less audible is to put them on the rear of the speaker. In a lot of designs this also makes the path length for radiation from front and rear of driver to the front of the box roughly equal which helps with summation and group delay. This could be done on Scott Hinson's design by putting port tubes from the rear chamber - through the horn path - and out the back of the cabinet. If they are small they won't reduce the cross section of the horn too much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fudge22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2023 at 11:07pm

Doesn’t anyone ever use internet search engines? It is not as though no-one has ever thought about this before. There are numerous articles and papers available discussing the measurement and computer simulation of voice coil temperature and thermal compression, as well as methods to improve cooling, so it should be easy to find some useful information on the topic.

Here are a few, in no particular order, to start with:


M. R. Gander, "Dynamic Linearity and Power Compression in Moving·Coil Loudspeakers”

J. Eargle, "Dynamic Compression in Studio Monitor Loudspeakers"

C. A. Henricksen, " Heat-Transfer Mechanisms in Loudspeakers: Analysis, Measurement, and Design"

T. S. Hsu & K. A. Poornima, “Temperature Prediction of a Voice Coil of a Moving Coil Loudspeaker by Computer Simulation”

A. J Hill, “Voice coil temperature in loudspeaker performance: Causes, effects and prevention techniques”

D. J. Button, “Heat Dissipation and Power Compression in Loudspeakers”

R. Bortoni, “Real-Time Voice-Coil Temperature and Cone Displacement Control of Loudspeakers”

 

The other factor to consider is the mechanical limitations of the drive unit. Assuming an effective, practical method to cool the voice coil can be implemented, how much more output will be obtained before excessive cone/coil movement becomes the limiting factor? At greater amplitudes, the cone suspension becomes less linear, and the coil may start to move outside the magnetic field. So, if the drive unit designer has optimised all parameters to limit at about the same time, improving the performance of just one won’t help much.

Before cutting holes in any panels, be aware that that the enclosure volume behind the drive unit may have been optimised for maximum power transfer; look up reactance annulling. It may have not, you would need to ask the designer of the cabinet, but be aware that attempting to vent the enclosure might result in greater losses than gains. You could always try it with the cover removed, which would make it a front-rear loaded horn.

if you have the time, money and inclination, go for it, but at least do some research on what has been done before, and understand the consequences of any changes that you make.

 

p.s. Some of the above papers are published by the AES. If you search for them the top results take you to the AES site, where they will be very happy to relieve you of your hard-earned cash in exchange for a copy. Move on. Many papers are available from the author, or the company they work for, free of charge. Anyone with access to a college library will probably be able to get them there.

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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APC321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2023 at 4:42pm
Was stripping down a bass bin today which I bought recently.

The Gauss driver inside had wadding placed over the magnet structure. The magnet structure had got so hot that it had left an imprint on the wadding.

The driver still works fine.

I wonder what temperature the voice coil reached?


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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2023 at 5:46pm
Sure its not rust from the motor? It could look like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2023 at 6:23pm
Aye, looks more like rust. The cover/heatsink on those did rust all the time.

And the best way to avoid overheating your drivers is take enough gear to cover the gig! LOL LOL LOL


Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APC321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2023 at 6:59pm
Fairplay, was rushing today, rust it is.

Wasn't a box I've used before.

I definitely do not underspec when I do gigs!
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