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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Midbass enclosures
    Posted: 13 May 2019 at 12:34am
Hi, I hope someone can help me out. I've got a rig consisting of 3 Eaw LA325's (full range containing 2 15'' in a bass reflex enclosure) and 2 C-subs containing  kilomax 18's. The system sounds great, loads of bottom end. However its be nice if there was a bit more punch/kick. The C-subs have loads of bottom ends around 35-45 hz but quickly roll off 70-80hz and they have quite a large group delay and sound a bit like they lag behind the Eaw's. I have the Eaws  crossed at around 70hz with the C-subs.

My  questions is it possible to add another pair of cabinets  to boost the range between 70-250hz. I'd like to use something like a tapped horn due to the efficiency but I'm unsure If the group delay between the cabinet in question and the 15''s from the eaw will work well together or will the different delays cancel out ?

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 1:18am
You probably just need to align the two boxes you have already, and use appropriate crossover points. Building another box adds more complication, not less.

You can do that for way cheaper than building or buying speakers, even if it’s not perfect. Worth a try first. A tapped horn isn’t necessarily a great choice as it too has high group delay in its upper region. But then, a reflex low section has high group delay at its cutoff so you never know... best to try to measure and align first, you could be a lap behind or even at zero summation.

Edited by toastyghost - 13 May 2019 at 1:20am
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 1:39am
What is a C-sub? Is that a Cyclops? Drive time alignment is everything when it comes to dynamics, if you don't have a processor capable doing this it should be your next investment.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 5:33am

When Rog created the C Sub, Punchy Bass was not the concept. Matters are worse you are using a Killomax which is not known for offering a lot of punchy bass. Bear in mind Punchy Bass/Mid Bass/Kick Bass is one in the same as it puts more emphasis from 60 Hz on up. Since you are using the EAW LA 325 why can you not achieve more punch from that cabinet? The LA 325 should get you down to 55 Hz with ease.

 

Best Regards,

Elliot Thompson
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 10:03am
Okay thanks I will be looking into getting a processor align the cabinets. I found the issue with the C-sub as that's it's a 6th order bandpass and at the lower tuning frequency  the group  delay is very very high. Tou can almost hear the kick and then a throb right after Making it sound muddy. I guess that's just a characteristic if using a big 6th order enclosure.
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 10:04am
Does anyone have any suggestions of a DSP that would do the job?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 10:22am
behringer ultradrive is cheap and has all the features you will need
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 6:00pm
I will be looking into getting a DSP such as the Ultradrive. Another question, the group delay of the subs are attached. As you can see its quite significant and has a couple of peaks. if i set a delay on the subs to a specific value it will only bring certain frequencies to a point where they align the 15's from the EAW's. is that something ill just have to deal with? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 2:52am
A bandpass sub like this is typically only used to cover from about 40-80hz and yes they lag pretty badly and it's for that reason they aren't terribly popular with PA types, but with a processor you should be able to make significant improvements.


Edited by Conanski - 14 May 2019 at 3:01am
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 4:23am
Originally posted by Matty309 Matty309 wrote:

I will be looking into getting a DSP such as the Ultradrive. Another question, the group delay of the subs are attached. As you can see its quite significant and has a couple of peaks. if i set a delay on the subs to a specific value it will only bring certain frequencies to a point where they align the 15's from the EAW's. is that something ill just have to deal with? 


Contact EAW and send them the delay graph of your design. EAW will tell you the proper delay settings for the LA 325 to mate with your design.

 

Best Regards,

Elliot Thompson
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Matty309 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty309 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 9:07am
Okay perfect. Thanks  everyone for the quick informative replies, appreciate it.
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