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Midrange compression driver development

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JulianDA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 1:45pm
Yesterday i measured the setup with the extended plug. Sadly the weather was so bad, that i could do just the one measurement. To show it in relation to the same pp without the extension i had to match the levels manually in REW. 

This is the Frequency response. The green trace is the original Plug whilst the orange one shows the extended one (with a reflection/resonance around 500Hz that could not be gated).


this is the distortion:

for this i also had to match the levels manually. so the absolute numbers are not included and i just look at the shape of the curves, i.e. where the most distortion occurs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2024 at 2:40pm
So how does the two compare in terms of sound? It appears each one offers their own trade offs. 

Best Regards, 
Elliot Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2024 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:


I agree with TimeBomb and Marjan, extend the plug further into the throat.

You write the throat is 80mm 50cm^2, consider that a standing wave in the throat would have its first null at ~2140Hz, which ligns up almost exactly with the first measured null.

I thought a lot about this and it made a lot of sense to me that this is the root of my problem. But then i remembered that i made a measurement of the CD mounted to the horn but without the corners at the throat -> so it should exaggerate the problem of the assumed throat-reflection even more because of the greater discontinuity. 
(The reason for that measurement was to see how smooth the transition at the throat really has to be)
This is the measurement without corners (blue) compared to one with the corners in place (red) cropped at 200Hz for better visibility. Sadly it had to be done indoors, so there are some reflections in the lower frequency range that could not be windowed out from the response.

As this change presents a much bigger discontinuity at the throat and has little to no effect on the ~2,2kHz dip i am now even more confused of its origin.

The following pictures are for better understanding of the involved geometries. The first one is a cut through the vertical phaseplug and horn profile and the second a cut through the horizontal profile. The highlighted part is said "corner" that was added to smooth the transition from round to square.


and for the complete picture here is the view from the front with all 4 corners at the throat in place:



Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

So how does the two compare in terms of sound? It appears each one offers their own trade offs. 

Best Regards, 

Actually i did not listen to the new modification since we had really limited time and the weather was beyond shitty Cry


Edited by JulianDA - 26 July 2024 at 3:59pm
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Isitone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isitone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2024 at 11:58am
any progress in this interesting project?
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JulianDA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2024 at 8:07pm
Yes there is progress :) we did some groundplane measurements to get a better look at the "real" response of the plug and horn combination without all reflections. Maybe i will post those on another day.
In the last weeks and months i designed a much better horn of which the last parts just finished 3D-printing. The next step will be to make a negative mould from it and then build it with glasfiber and resin. Hopefully this process will be done next weekend.

With the better Horn it will be much easier to optimise the Phaseplug in the later stages of this project. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2024 at 2:20am
Sooo we put together the 3D-printed Horn that i designed. It came out really nice if i say so myself:




We used this for quick measurements and to make a plaster-mould for later fibreglas fun.





The mould looks pretty rough right now and is split in two parts, but it will be fine after glueing it and smoothing it with some filler and sandpaper. Sometime in the next weeks we will try to build the first "real" horn from glasfibre. I will keep you updated :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Contour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2024 at 8:14am
Nice work! 
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Keen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2024 at 3:55am
Awesome!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2024 at 8:10am
this i a wholesome thread to follow! keep up the nice work and story of this build. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2024 at 5:25pm
This is awesome! I can't see any warping of the 3D print, looks like a really decent printer you have and some skills to get it this good. The mold also came out great.

Did you eventually solve the dip, or just accept it?
Best regards,
Teun.
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JulianDA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2024 at 10:59pm
The printer is in fact a cheap one straight out of the box without any modifications (It is an Ankermake M5C). We are also really happy with its performance. 3D-printing definitely improved a lot in the last years. 

Regarding the dip i did nothing new since my last post with measurements. I will address that "problem" when the Horn ist finished and the dip is still there. 
My thinking is as follows:
Since the horn has no abrupt changes in area/flare, no straight walls and no diffraction apparatus of any sort, it itself should behave fairly good when fed with a appropiate wavefront. With this in mind, it should be way easier to work on the phaseplug when its prototypes are mounted to this new horn.

And just for completion: 
The horn has a size of 500x360x240mm (WxHxD),
a constant directivity of 60x50° (HxV) 
and it loads the driver to 400Hz (will probably be used from 600-800Hz up)

Here is a measurement of the printed horn with the extended phaseplug in the near field (20cm) with 1dB increments, no crossover, no eq, no smoothing (but windowing at 14ms after peak)


Here is a measurement at 60cm with some eq to get it flat. (We could not measure further away this time without reflections)
No crossover, no smoothing (but windowing at 14ms after peak) 


Here are measurements of the eq'ed response in 10° increments from 0° to 60° in one direction of the horizontal plane (so 0-120° absolute coverage angle). Here i used 1/6dB smoothing so one can actually somehow read the graphs LOL


And the same for the vertical. This time from 0° to 40° (so 0-80° total).



We really need to get these measurements done outside....but i think one can see a tendency of how this horn performs. There will be better measurements when we finished the one in glasfibre :) 


Edited by JulianDA - 25 November 2024 at 3:56pm
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Teunos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2024 at 9:14am
Measurements look great, but doing them outside would be a great idea. The null at 550Hz looks like it might come from a reflection. Is this a gated measurements?
What's the vertical scale on those measurements? Difficult to really assess directivity without that :-)
Looks like usable range is up to about a crossover around 3kHz consdering directivity, should be high enough to cross into a sweet 1" exit, 2"driphragm driver. 
Best regards,
Teun.
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