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noviygera 
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 Topic: Mini "mid" Scoops for 150hz and up ??
Posted: 03 September 2025 at 8:53pm |
Guys, I've been thinking about a mini-scoop with a 10" or a 12" for an outdoor system (decent output from 150hz to 800hz). such as JBL 2123 (the 10") https://jblpro.com/en-US/site_elements/2123h-information or JBL 2020h the (the 12")
These are the highest sensitivity drivers I have. I need high efficiency between 150hz and 800hz. How about a short front horn -- bump the efficiency above 400hz. AND.... a scoop on the back to bump the efficiency from 150hz to 400hz.
What do you think about this? Been done? Results?
why you may ask? Well, the 15" doing 150-800hz does not sound so good to me.
Can't wait to hear your thoughts!
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levyte357-
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Posted: 08 September 2025 at 8:24pm |
 noviygera wrote:
Guys, I've been thinking about a mini-scoop with a 10" or a 12" for an outdoor system (decent output from 150hz to 800hz). |
Insanity..
Suggest you look at ES18 (Eleltrikal version) (636x636) for 80hz-200hz, will require clever smoothing eq, , alignment with LMS, eq, to sound right.
MT121 Mid top with B&C 12ndl76, 180hz - 1400hz, with smoothing eq/alignment.
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fat_brstd
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Posted: 09 September 2025 at 1:31am |
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Build a decent sized mid-range horn and chuck the 12" driver in it.
You can use the MT121 12" section down to 150 no worries, I cross into mine at 154hz on a 24db LR slope and cross out at 800hz, its pretty much perfect for the range you want to cover.
Using a scoop to do 150-800 is madness, its completely the wrong sort of box for that frequency range.
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levyte357-
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Posted: 10 September 2025 at 1:01am |
fat_brstd wrote:
I cross into mine at 154hz on a 24db LR slope and cross out at 800hz, |
Hi mate, my mate listened to me and ran MT121s for over a decade, periodically upgrading 12s.
With tuning eq in LMS, we were running the 12" section up to 1800hz no problem. We planned to try out PD123ER, but PD121 gave perfect combination of throaty mids and spl.
Edited by levyte357- - 10 September 2025 at 1:02am
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fat_brstd
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Posted: 10 September 2025 at 7:50am |
levyte357- wrote:
fat_brstd wrote:
I cross into mine at 154hz on a 24db LR slope and cross out at 800hz, |
Hi mate, my mate listened to me and ran MT121s for over a decade, periodically upgrading 12s.
With tuning eq in LMS, we were running the 12" section up to 1800hz no problem. We planned to try out PD123ER, but PD121 gave perfect combination of throaty mids and spl.
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I run PD123ER in my MT121's but have no need for them to go higher than 800hz as I have 10" & 1" above that which are clearer and more defined than running the MT up higher. TBH from my personal experiments with my MT121 I found they don't really do a good job over about 1khz as they get a bit phasey, particularly if you have multiple of them arrayed in an arc regardless of the amount of EQ you apply. They will definitely work higher than 1khz if they have to (I know someone who was running them up to 3.5khz for years) but its not the best way especially these days when you can get a big coax compression driver that is totally happy playing from 650hz ish up past 22khz.
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levyte357-
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Posted: 10 September 2025 at 11:25am |
Main reason we ran MT121s upto 1.8khz, was to get 1.8k to 12k out of 2", with just smoothing eq.
This combo/tuning, gave industrial strength spl, inside and out.
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noviygera
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Posted: 11 October 2025 at 11:39pm |
Thanks guys, good info. Taking all this into account I came up with TWO directions. Also keep in mind that: 1. Outdoor, daytime techno sound system, for 200 people. 2. 100db max allowed average level in the sweet spot. 3. above 800hz, JBL 2352 horn with 2452h compression driver. TWO MIDRANGE options (150-800hz) 1. Single 12 with front horn, such as Limmerhorn 312 https://www.limmerhorns.de/312/2. Double 10”, direct radiating. Such as JBL 2251J. Will double 10” side by side (horizontal orientation) work OK crossed over at 800hz? Severe comb filtering? Has anyone tried the 312 Limmerhorn?  Herman
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Lucasdude
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Posted: 12 October 2025 at 1:36pm |
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I used to use double 10" cabs, side by side. An old Eminence textbook design with the 10s slightly splayed and a 6" wide panel in-between for either bullet tweeters or reflex ports to make for a more flexible box. The splaying allows for better coverage and avoids overlapping interference. You can also give them slight horn loading by recessing the baffle and fitting simple diagonal cut timber around the edge.
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levyte357-
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Posted: 13 October 2025 at 11:47am |
Not sure why you think 2x10" direct radiating design, will excel outside.
Time to catch up with the 21st century, and read what people on this forum, have been doing for years. Forget about JBL/Eminence mid top designs from the 1970s.
From much personal experience, I prefer MT121s, loaded with quality 12" neo/2" comp, and B&C 2" me75 alu horn or similar.
This horn works well with top 2" comps, from Beyma, B&C, 18sound.
The MT121 cab, properly loaded and tuned with LMS, is second only to expensive 12" fibre glass phase bung mids, from Martin/Ass/Void/Mykey/EAW/Turbosound/FK1.
Edited by levyte357- - 13 October 2025 at 12:36pm
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noviygera
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Posted: 13 October 2025 at 11:34pm |
Ok, fair enough! Couple questions though: 1. I like the idea of a 12” with horn but can’t build the horn myself. Anyone try the Limmerhorn 312? 2. Why is 2” comp driver preferred to a 1.5”? Thanks, Herman
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levyte357-
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Posted: 14 October 2025 at 12:32am |
Not sure where you are, but first stop is check FB Marketplace, before building.
Decent 2", with right horn will go upto 16khz easy, with industrial SPL.
Which is needed for outside.
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colint
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Posted: 18 October 2025 at 2:54pm |
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I have 8 x JBL2206 600watt drivers for sale if you can make use of them?
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Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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