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RosietheBand View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:29pm
Hey all,

Haven't been on here for a while so I thought I'd better post in the noob section.

I've got a bit of downtime coming up and I'm looking for a project to work on. I'm a full-time live sound engineer, and it has occurred to me that I could really use a high quality, ultra-compact pa for corporate work. Mostly for speech reproduction and a bit of playback.

I was thinking something along the lines of a dual 6" with a nice tight dispersion, coupled with a single 12"sub per side. I could add to this in future (add more tops as delays for bigger rooms etc.) The main objective would be feedback rejection and general tidyness, although I'd like to use it for folk/acoustic gigs as well, so SQ has to be up there.

Do any designs jump to mind? I'm happy to spend up to £800 all in, but that would have to include some kind of processor (I have amps).

Thanks guys,
L
With love and many thanks,

Rosie.

www.rosietheband.com
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:49pm
Tight dispersion and compact is not possible. Only if you want tight dispersion from 2khz up.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cookie-dj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:54pm
Maybe you could try a pair of the Fane 12-250TC co-ax drivers for your mid tops. VERY reasonably priced and a few people have put them in vocal wedges too. Just put them in a box of around 40L (I think) and you're away.

For the bass...

I keep banging on about my Tham 12 (see here)but seriously I haven't heard better bass come from such a tiny box. 
Or I wonder if member Bee still has the rights to the Q12 sub or whatever it was called...Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:01am
It is a Q12 and with the bms driver does require a solid 1000w amp up it's backside.

Iv been hunting for a dual 6 plus comp box myself to add to my collection....

If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RosietheBand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:22am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Tight dispersion and compact is not possible. Only if you want tight dispersion from 2khz up.


I feel like that is something I should have known in my profession. Saying that, I've had great results with smaller boxes (the little d&b point source boxes come to mind.) Is there something about a smaller cone that increases the dispersion?

Maybe I was being careless when I say I'm looking for a tight dispersion - even with little rear spill might be a better description. Considering the likely placement, 90° would be fine.
With love and many thanks,

Rosie.

www.rosietheband.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RosietheBand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:24am
Originally posted by cookie-dj cookie-dj wrote:

Maybe you could try a pair of the Fane 12-250TC co-ax drivers for your mid tops. VERY reasonably priced and a few people have put them in vocal wedges too. Just put them in a box of around 40L (I think) and you're away.

For the bass...

I keep banging on about my Tham 12 (see here)but seriously I haven't heard better bass come from such a tiny box. 
Or I wonder if member Bee still has the rights to the Q12 sub or whatever it was called...Ermm


Loving the look of these subs! Seems like a great tradeoff between size/performance. Have you tested them in the field? I wonder how they perform when you couple a few together.

I'm thinking 12" is going to be too large for my purposes, but coax is definitely worth considering.

Edited by RosietheBand - 22 May 2017 at 1:34am
With love and many thanks,

Rosie.

www.rosietheband.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RosietheBand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:32am
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

It is a Q12 and with the bms driver does require a solid 1000w amp up it's backside.

Iv been hunting for a dual 6 plus comp box myself to add to my collection....



Power shouldn't be an issue, a friend said he'd lend me a few of his Vortex 6s - overkill but you can never have enough power :-D

Perhaps a three way box might be a better way to go - a coax 6/8 on top with another 8" on mids. I've had great results with the One Systems 208 which does something along those lines (they are admittedly very expensive, but they're IP rated.)
With love and many thanks,

Rosie.

www.rosietheband.com
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:58am
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

It is a Q12 and with the bms driver does require a solid 1000w amp up it's backside.

Iv been hunting for a dual 6 plus comp box myself to add to my collection....


I am working on a such box. Should be released within 2-3 weeks.
Small but beastly one. 600W AES, 1200W program. In a HF horn testing phase at the moment.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 2:00am
Originally posted by RosietheBand RosietheBand wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Tight dispersion and compact is not possible. Only if you want tight dispersion from 2khz up.


I feel like that is something I should have known in my profession. Saying that, I've had great results with smaller boxes (the little d&b point source boxes come to mind.) Is there something about a smaller cone that increases the dispersion?

Maybe I was being careless when I say I'm looking for a tight dispersion - even with little rear spill might be a better description. Considering the likely placement, 90° would be fine.

In a reflex box the only dispersion controlled part of the  sound is the one coming from the horn.
Since those are most often small horns, no real pattern control below 1500-2000hz. The lower you go, wider the dispersion because the 6 inch drivers are becoming omni directional.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 2:03am
You mentioned a double 8 inch box. A 8 inch and a coax 8 inch combo. We do have such box, but aint going to fit in your budget.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RosietheBand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 2:04am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Originally posted by RosietheBand RosietheBand wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Tight dispersion and compact is not possible. Only if you want tight dispersion from 2khz up.


I feel like that is something I should have known in my profession. Saying that, I've had great results with smaller boxes (the little d&b point source boxes come to mind.) Is there something about a smaller cone that increases the dispersion?

Maybe I was being careless when I say I'm looking for a tight dispersion - even with little rear spill might be a better description. Considering the likely placement, 90° would be fine.


In a reflex box the only dispersion controlled part of the  sound is the one coming from the horn.
Since those are most often small horns, no real pattern control below 1500-2000hz. The lower you go, wider the dispersion because the 6 inch drivers are becoming omni directional.


Ah, I see. So in order to get the freq response low enough to play nice with the subs, a 6" box would have to be reflex, resulting in a more Omni pattern in the low end? And the only way to control that low end is with a horn, which would increase the box size?
With love and many thanks,

Rosie.

www.rosietheband.com
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RosietheBand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RosietheBand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2017 at 2:08am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

You mentioned a double 8 inch box. A 8 inch and a coax 8 inch combo. We do have such box, but aint going to fit in your budget.


Thanks for the reply! That's ok, this is mainly a project to keep me occupied and to learn something in the process. Obviously I'd like the end result to be useful but I have access to plenty of Pro level hire stock if I need it, so buying doesn't really make sense for me at the minute.
With love and many thanks,

Rosie.

www.rosietheband.com
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