monacor advantage system

came across this booklet promoting monacor branded drivers whilst
looking for information on mckenzie.

users.libero.it/creat/Pdf_altro/ manuale_autocostruzione_casse.pdf

(if that doesn't work google mrh-3244 and it's the 4th one down)
the advantage system, pages 5-11 and page 75 for top construction,
looks interesting for pubs and house parties. it'd go in a hatchback with
the seats down i reckon. anyone heard these designs? they seem to target
the german home market...

subs:
i like:
small portable and modular subs, easy to carry.
suitable for small venues, relatively high output?
only required to fill small frequency band so good application of bp box.
specifies high sensitivity 100w 1dB driver.
it would be easy to use a different driver and tune with bass box pro.

i don't like:
steel chassis.

tops:
i like:
good looking spread of drivers to ensure adequate frequency response.
crossover frequency should ensure adequate high-mid/ high dispersion.
passive crossover design included.
good use of cabinet space.
braced drivers.
small system footprint.
adequate height without stands?
high efficiency drivers specified.

i don't like:
inherant lack of time alignment between drivers.
mixture of horn and reflex technologies.
adequate low-mid dispersion questionable.
not enough power in the 100-150 hz range?
low mid and bass cones seem to share enclosure (surely not!).

any thoughts? i have asked monacor to send a price list and catalogue,
although i cannot find the 10" fibreglass mid horns anywhere on their
website anymore and they may be discontinued.

james.

hi mike, cheers man, there's some food for thought there. the above post
is a perfect example of why i love speakerplans...

the thing about the 12 and 10" drivers sharing cabinet space that i
thought would be a problem would be the change in internal air pressure
resisting the movement of the cone, furthermore i thought the 10
required a very small volume like the mt102/122 to get higher response
out of it.

i did wonder how good dispersion on the ring radiator would be,
strangely monacor spec the mhd-540 as being 60x60 and the advantage
top as having about 90 degrees horizontal spread, these two figures sadly
do not tally. i don't know if it is a particularly expensive one (~£55), the
2" compression driver it is supposed to mate with certainly is at around
£250! (somehow i was expecting a lot less, like p-audio bm-d750
territory).

now, the biggy: what do you mean by summing the acoustic and electrical
filters, and just what is so bad about passive crossovers? the losses? the
slopes? the reason i was attracted to this ickle system was its ability to
run off two amps and an active crossover for simple plug and play events,
the lynch pin being the passive filter network in the tops.

making the subs as a bp3 (i get confused about the nomenclature, i mean
venting off both sides of the driver though like x-1 or eminence designs)
would make for less of a single peak response, twin peaks at least! but is
the compactness lost? yes an hd15 is a similar size and two would go
underneath to make a good plinth, but surely i'd lose the bottom end
response. the hd15 plot looks like a big lump at 130, and the electrovoice
t18 looks like mt everest at 100, but we know they sound a little more
rounded than that in groups, maybe this would be similar.

i had got the measure of this system wrong in many ways, having started
pricing up components they work out as rather expensive boxes; i had
thought they were a bit more entry-level. it does of course mean it is not
the inexpensive sollution i had dreampt of for pubs and house parties
and as an unproven design that makes it significanly less attractive to
build.

that lead me onto thinking "ooh, i could re-tune the reflex ports to use
my rcf l12p530 12" as bass, mckenzie c8-100gp on a wooden horn as
low mids and fane kc18-300c on the bottom end. i'd only have to buy a
2", horn and ring radiator and some wood and bingo..." why i keep
thinking crazy driver swaps like that will work i don't know; but then i
thought hey, i could build one and fettle the crossover until it was nice,
then repeat! this almost entirely misses the point of the design
process, but is an inevitable consequence of having really nice drivers sat
on my bedside table staring me out for 18 months.

james.

@ Mike, please show me the commercial 90x40 degree horn that is 1) not astigmatic and 2) has a power response that matches a 15" or a small mid driver on a conical horn? Agreed that a 15"/1" is enough for most people, especially if there is alc. involved (or other substances, but  remember the word Alba popping up somewhere in the past in that contest but Speakerplans lacks some smilies Sj has ;-)

A 6" Mid driver crossed 2k5ish to a nice 1" vs 15"/1" in the midrange and above is a very,very skewed comparison (and not in favour of the 15"/1" I might add) Edit: It just dawned on me that you may have meant hifi type setups.

@ james...: the 2" is one of the 4" diaphragm P.Audios (have a look at the PA series iirc)


Edited by Timber_MG

Timber_MG wrote: @ Mike, please show me the commercial 90x40 degree horn that is 1) not astigmatic and 2) has a power response that matches a 15" or a small mid driver on a conical horn? Agreed that a 15"/1" is enough for most people, especially if there is alc. involved (or other substances, but  remember the word Alba popping up somewhere in the past in that contest but Speakerplans lacks some smilies Sj has ;-) A 6" Mid driver crossed 2k5ish to a nice 1" vs 15"/1" in the midrange and above is a very,very skewed comparison (and not in favour of the 15"/1" I might add) Edit: It just dawned on me that you may have meant hifi type setups. @ james...: the 2" is one of the 4" diaphragm P.Audios (have a look at the PA series iirc)

Its not a comparison-its simply admitting that the 15" wont produce the vocal clarity that a dedicated midhorn can. 90x40bi radials are meant to sound excellent-I was planning on buying the paudio clones.

Perhaps in reality the HF horn isnt always matched to the midrange driver effectively,due to cheap horns or mis sized horns.

an 8" DR should have about 90degress dispersion at a touch under 2kHz. In a horn matters change significantly and diffraction at the mouth complicates things even further, but a conical flare holds its dispersion quite well aboce the frequency where the mouth is big enough to support the directivity. Now for some GedLee SPEAK32 sim action to show you what really happens (unfortunately not quite yet)

Edit: spelling


Edited by Timber_MG

You just mentioned THE app for modelling midrange horns ;-) However using it properly might be another matter (said to have a big learning curve). Personally I'd wait for their next release though. Otherwise AJHorn is said to be fairly good at modelling on-axis response of mid-horns.

The above mentioned 2" horn looks like a copy from a well known manufacturer;-)