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More COVID speakerplanning - Trapezoidal 3-way top
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citizensc View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 16 October 2015
Location: Perth,Australia
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Points: 526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2020 at 11:39am
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Just to add a bit on the PM90/60. You can also use the RCF ND950. It is significantly cheaper then the BMS/B&C coax.


It is still about 700 pounds in drivers so its not cheap for a DIY box, I love to hear an A-B between the ND950 and DCX464 and hear out much there is to gain with a coaxial compression driver. 

Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

putting a 15" in a horn, with your choice of compromises will yield a new version of kick solution, so carry on. Iterative evolution of the subject is as valid as massive steps.

...

Same with a 15" in a horn, simmed in HR? You have less FIA rules to adhere to, but you are adding your own constraints and rules. If you're competent, which it sounds like you are, for the set of variables you start with, should generate an almost predetermined output!


While there are lots of commercial 15+8/10+1 horn loaded cabs, I don't know of a single public plan for one that uses easy to find components. I remember when I was building my system I searched far and wide for such a plan and ended up settling for xtros as they were the closest thing. I feel I can design something cheaper, smaller, lighter, easier to build and easier to find components for. To me this isn't just iterative but something new to the DIY speaker world, something that has been missing for no good reason. 

The tricky bit so far is figuring out a layout. I have completed about 10 iterations of laying it out, I am slowly zoning in on something that works. Will post when I have something worth showing. 
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citizensc View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 16 October 2015
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Points: 526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2020 at 11:29am
Lil update:

I think I have finally come up with something that makes sense. 

It is 810x650x450, 237L, an xtro is 308L for reference, 30% larger. 

Making the cab narrower and shallower while maintaining height means the mouths can be closer together when splayed, it will take up less floor space in transit and the mids and highs can be as high in the air as possible. 

By my calculations it should weigh 40-45kg all up, inc drivers, horn flares, paint, screws etc. I would consider this a very manageable weight for a 3-way hornloaded mid top. 

F3 is about 84hz, so it should meet most subs no problem. 

I have designed this to fit the B&C de360 on an XR1064 as it is a very light weight, low profile driver. The 35 watt power rating might scare some people but with 110dB @ 2.83v sensitivity it should have no problem keeping up. Being a ring radiator it should have good HF response and suffer very little breakup. The DE250, a driver I am very familiar with and know has no problem keeping up with an Xtro. The de250 is only 0.8dB louder at rated power. 

The 15inch driver is the MB15N351

The 8 inch horn + driver is the MR8XTN

The total cost of drivers and hornflares is ~ 535 pounds inc VAT.

The biggest issue I can see is installing the 15 inch driver. As drawn the driver fits in through the top and an internal panel opens up to allow access to all the bolts. The driver could also fit in through a side hatch but this would result in a less clean exterior. I don't see this is much of an issue as long as you are not the kind of person that blows drivers every other weekend. 

Anyway here it is, let me know what you think.





Grey Xtro 2v @ 4ohm (1 watt), Black My design 2.83v @ 8 ohm (1 watt) 

And with some mild EQ, an actual cab would need to be constructed before making any decisons about EQ, this is just to illustrate that the peek towards the top is not a big issue. 


This is with 72.11v (650 watt), I do not expect any excursion issues.  
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citizensc View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 16 October 2015
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Points: 526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2020 at 4:21am
As no one has any feedback, I am going just going to post the sketchup drawing. Someone has contacted me outside of the speakerplans forum asking for the plan, he hopes to try it out, if he gives any feedback I will post it here. If anyone else has any tries it out and has any feedback, id love to hear it! 

I'm going to call it the 'SC-364' (I'm citizenSC, its 3-way and it has 60x40 dispersion). 

Sketchup Drawing: SC-364

PM me if the link goes dead


Edited by citizensc - 05 August 2020 at 7:55am
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citizensc View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 16 October 2015
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Points: 526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2020 at 10:39pm
For anyone that may be thinking about building this speaker, I have come up with some ideas on how to improve the kick section - less group delay, more power handling, easier to load the driver. I am also not sure if the mb15n351 will actually survive horn loading due to its light cone. 

A mk2 version will be coming soon™
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kipman725 View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 September 2020
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Points: 221 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2020 at 1:05am
the compression ratio is ~ 2:1? I think it should be OK should see an increase in distortion before the cone buckles so a non destructive test is possible by slowly increasing the level.
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Contour View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Points: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Contour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2020 at 8:28am
Flat top surface seems preffered for stacking and transport purposes, the extra space can be used to fit an longer horn and te internal hatch is directly behind the mid horn. 
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citizensc View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Points: 526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2020 at 8:48am
I am going to re-do it with the new 18sound 15NMB1000 - http://www.eighteensound.com/en/products/lf-driver/15-0/8/15nmb1000

Based on the playing I have done so far in sim land, this driver is properly good in FLH kick bins (provided they are designed for it). It is expensive but I think its worth it. I am moving back to my home city in a couple of months and I will finally be able to make some saw dust, I will be ordering one of these drivers to have a play with. 

As far as a flat top goes, it is on the cards, I think I am going to increase the T-value and increase the volume of the rear chamber for the horn. 

Edited by citizensc - 19 September 2020 at 2:25am
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Dutchman View Drop Down
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Points: 365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 9:25pm
Looks really interesting :D. Curious to see how this will evolve.
It reminds me a bit of Funktion One res 5. 
Altough your cabinets dont look  trap.
Maybe a good idea to implement some wheelboards for transporting and stacking.
We need more SPL!
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kipman725 View Drop Down
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Points: 221 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2020 at 11:27pm
Everything I have seen about 18sound drivers indicates they are probably the most advanced speaker manufacturer.  Some kipple data for the 18ntlw5000 was flashed up in a B&C slide deck showing a totally flat BL curve to +/-15mm, so I would be confident in your choice.
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