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MT121 & FANE LONGTHROW COMBO, any advice welcome,

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Hz so good View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 November 2017 at 1:20pm
Hi all, I'm new here so please bear with me for any errors, I've been reading forums and researching for a while now, I set out sometime ago with the intention of building a rig, I am now financially set to get the ball rolling, in between I have had tons of ideas etc but what I'm most sold on are folded horns and flared horns, basically anything you can't see the drivers, to start with I'm wanting to have a smallish rig for venues of 200 -250 people max, aesthetically I like the look of a fane 15 longthrow horn with one or two MT121 on top, either side front of house, 
I have the original FANE book which states the longthrow goes down to 60hz and as high as 700, and I have read the MT121 covers 160hz to 1.6khz in the mids and 1.6khz and beyond in the highs, I'm happy with that I know it's only 3 way and not 4 way, if any one wants to add their input please do as every bit of knowledge helps, thanks in advance, 

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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 4:06pm
60hz isnt very low?

Im already thinking of changing my 15" subs into kick bins and sitting them on some 18s as i want more sub 40hz content.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 4:08pm
HI
for what kind of music? 60 to 700 hz sounds like a mid bass cabinet, you need a subwoofer under that unless you play acoustic jazz or this is a 12 volt rig, else you are shooting at around 40 hz, or less if your style of music demnds it.
i don't know the fane longthrows, but it does not sound like a good match to mt121,  if it goes up to 700 hz you are wasting energy with a lot of overlap (70 -700 and 160-1.6), you could do with a smaller top than mt121;
in reality if it is a folded horn i doubt it make such a nice 700 hz...
also the ratio will probably be the opposite, one mt121 to 2 subs.
horns are nice and efficent but difficult to build and tame. Reflex could be easier to build and to tune, but i understand if you you are set on horns.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hz so good Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 5:34pm
The style of music is house and garage, 240v system, 
I definitely wouldn't overlap, Ide cross them over somewhere that suits them best, for example 250hz just as a figure, even just 160hz, because the fanes only go down to 60hz provisions for subs below is definitely an option, I was kind of hoping that for smaller venues like social club function rooms or something about the size of a badminton court you could go with out subs and get everything I need from the fanes and the mt121, and add subs for bigger venues, I doubt by adding more fanes you would go much lower by horn coupling, correct me if I'm wrong, 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hz so good Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 5:45pm
I was wondering if I had got the ratio the wrong way round with 2 mts and one fane, thanks for correcting me,   if I had one mt121 on top of two fanes, all I would need to do is find a sub to work well with it, cheers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2017 at 6:06pm
mt121 is loud. one a side is loud. the reason to use 2 a side, would be to cover a wider area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hz so good Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 8:20am
I think the only reason I suggested two mt121 on top is from seeing f1 dance stacks with two ds10 on top of ds15s, but then obviously all that's on top of some f218s, as for the fanes only going down to 60hz I could either find a sub to go under em to go the lower freqs or bin em off and find some plans for a Martin b115 which go down to 40hz, they look very similar go a lot lower and it'll be cheaper to run, does any one know the correct driver for Martin b115? Thanks in advance, 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 9:09am
bro, you need lots of horns to get to 40, one or two doesn't do 40, unless they're huuuuuge. from memory the fane designs aren't that big, and, I can tell you right now the martin b115 won't go anywhere near 40. 

ps. @ -25db it's another story...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 9:16am
Wrong design for 250 people, certainly wrong for house unless you are going to stack four horns at least.

If you must have horns for looks, build a Martin WSX (tra) with a V1000 in it.


Edited by nickyburnell - 05 November 2017 at 9:23am
It's everything, not everythink!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hz so good Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 9:49am
Ide stack 4 horns but how low would they go coupled together, is there a rule of thumb when you stack in multiples? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 11:16am
depends on length of horn. It needs to be 1/4 of the lowest wavelength you're trying to get loud. Loading below this is also good. 40hz wavelength is 858cm, horn needs to be 215cm to load it, but going beyond that is good - say 230 odd, because excursion will rise very rapidly below the horn cuttoff. going longer with the horn keeps excursion under control through the HPF slope. 

The other factor is mouth area, the reason why one horn can't create gain in the lower octaves. When 4 horns combine, it starts getting nearer the required mouth area to load the lower octaves. They're acting as one big horn. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 11:21am
The rirst rule of thumb is the horn length has to be at least 1/4 of a wavelength long to provide decent loading.
And the second is the mouth area circumference (i.e. the length around the horns when stacked together) needs to be the same as the wavelength of the lowest frequency your trying to reproduce.

Hope that makes sense.

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