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My first rig... progress thread

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Khyber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Khyber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2017 at 10:14pm
So instead of splitting it into essentially (removing all the circle cutouts) a 3x3x3 compartment would 2x2x2 be sufficient?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2017 at 10:21pm
3 double 18 subs to 2 double 15 kicks.

Basically: Mixer to processing (crossover/dsp/effects) to amps to speakers. You need enough amp power for the speakers and enough processing to protect the drivers, split the frequency bands and tune the rig to the environment. That can all be done by one box (dsp).

Edited by Hemisphere - 21 December 2017 at 10:22pm
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Khyber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Khyber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2017 at 10:27pm
Woah really?? Even for hard dance/trance etc... wouldn't be too 'subby'? It's more tight and punchy over sub bass. For dub i would understand? Or is the newbie showing in me :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 12:25am
Newbie showing I'm afraid

I mean..really massive fundamental failure to understand the theory on the most basic level, tbh, if you think you'll need more kicks than sub for any sort of music.

Check out the 'show off your soundsystem' threads, just scroll through all the rigs, most of them will have an obvious kick section, count the bins. They're not all dub rigs!

Look at dance music playing through a spectrum analyser and think about it. 6dB louder requires twice as many cabs, and in most dance music the 30-80Hz region will be 10-20dB up most of the time.

Edited by Hemisphere - 22 December 2017 at 12:29am
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Khyber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Khyber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 12:57am
Cheers man, That's why I'm here asking questions after all. i have been through a lot of the 'show off your soundsystem' and checked haha i agree :)



This look more like it?

Ripped out some guts too.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 8:03am
You still have the ratio backwards. 3 sub drivers to 2 kicks.

I understand you're new to this but I worry you're too new to be thinking about building some massive high end rig if you can't at least see that anything less than a 1:1 ratio would give an unnecessary amount of headroom to the kick region.

If your sub box peaks at 135dB per driver and your kicks peak at 134dB (for sake of argument - it may be a couple of dB off one way or other), then a 2:1 ratio of kick to sub would give 5dB more headroom to a region that never plays louder...ever. At least certainly not in any kind of dance music. No matter how hard it is, the loudest notes reproduced will be the fundamentals of the kick drum and the bass notes. The higher bass notes (ones with their fundamentals in the kick region) will always be produced at lower amplitudes in music.

Reverse the ratio (2x18 sub for every 1x15 kick) and you get 7dB more headroom on sub, which may be overkill indoors but will prove invaluable outdoors. A more modest 3:2 ratio gives about4dB extra headroom on sub which is nothing really.

You also have to keep in mind power compression losses will be much more pronounced on the sub because the rms of the lower bass is much, much greater than the kick, that can eat into another 2 or 3dB of headroom in long sessions at high volume.

Consider that many midtops (Funktion One ie) incorporate a kick region. Can you imagine an F1 stack with 3 double 18 bass and even SIX midtops precariously balanced on top? Let alone NINE! That's what you're doing with this rig plan.

Your port gets too close to the rear wall of the cab btw.. You should leave a gap of 2x port diameter ideally - you might get away with less but 1x port diameter is no good.

Edited by Hemisphere - 22 December 2017 at 8:48am
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Khyber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Khyber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 9:39am
Aha i think im with you now im fresh headed, a few too many Disaronnos last night had me confuddled i think. So indoors say the 6 single 18s down the bottom with only 2 of the double 15s and 1 double 12 top box. And outdoors could get away with chucking 2 more subs in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 10:28am
The top box would be your bottleneck in that arrangement, especially as fidelity is your goal. You really don't want your mids to be strained to keep up indoors.

6x single sub 2x double kick 2x midtop.

More typical use might be 3x or 4x sub per side, 1x kick 1x midtop.

Your bass section looks good in a 3/2 arrangement but then you have issues with stack height with your midtop design. I think you may need to go back to the drawing board lol

What you're going to be forced to contend with if you want your rig to look special is that there's a reason systems look the way they do and if you want to play around with that you need to understand those reasons before designing the system, else you'll be shooting in the dark with your design choices.

Bass and kick designs look good btw but I think the midtop will be annoying on it's side when the extra 35cm of having the CD at the top of the cab could make the difference between a viable or unviable stacking arrangement.

There's also no reason for your mids to be vented unless you plan to use them as monitors sometimes, but they're really better off sealed.

Again with the fidelity issue, you're really not going to want your mids in a straight box enclosure. It won't splay well in multiples for one thing, and you'll get standing waves in the cab from the parallel walls. A trapezoid is the typical solution to both problems.

That will introduce added build complexity but if I understood correctly, you will be getting assistance with the build?

Edited by Hemisphere - 22 December 2017 at 11:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 11:03am
Did a festival last spring and the main stage had 8 of those TW audio boxes so 16x 15'' drivers. Running off the Powersoft K3. I have to say I wasn't impressed. It was pumping it out but 8 scoops on the same stage at a regge festi was twice the thump. Just saying. and the TW was maybe 3 x the price. sounded nice though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosssss224 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 11:09am
A single K3??!
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Khyber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Khyber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 11:20am
yeah I'm following you. Ill scrap the MT and re-think. No planned assistance in building but i do have my own workshop and laser cutter. i plan on using the laser cutter to make 6mm routing jigs for the complex stuff and hole cutting and a plunge saw for all the straight and miter cuts. I am still struggling to source any decent reading material related to these kinds of builds not home theater/studio rather than asking questions about every possible thing.

Edit*
the port depth was just random haven't worked them out yet just drew them in i know in reality they will need to be a lot shorter

Edit 2*

Just clicked the link in your (Hemisphere) sig haha not sure i have even reached the peak of MT Stupid yet. I feel like i have not even left sight of base camp :) :)


Edited by Khyber - 22 December 2017 at 11:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2017 at 12:08pm
If it's also your first build then I would settle on one design which won't change - sub is probably best as it will be most pronouncedly unforgiving on a poor build, but also most flexible on design/form - build a prototype and see how you get on, then you can develop a plan for the midtop. It'll give you time to think about it and also to familiarise yourself with the processes and your capacity to apply them in the real world. There may be more to it than you think and you don't want to risk biting off more than you can chew.

Plus you'll have some tangible results to go on - that's the most likely way you'll get this idea off the ground if you're serious about it.

I'm not sure what your options are for a book that'll walk you through the assembly process tbh. Like a lot of people most of my understanding is from tireless reading and writing on forums and websites. There are some really well documented build threads out there with step by step photos and detailed chronicling of development down to the fine details.

The difficulty is there are so many ways to skin the cat, so to speak, dependent on your tools and skills, and such a wide array of design options that require different techniques, it would be hard to condense that into a 'one size fits all' resource. Maybe there is one but I don't know it.
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