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My hastily assembled system, for £2000 |
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charlysays 
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Joined: 16 June 2015 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 419 |
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 Topic: My hastily assembled system, for £2000Posted: 16 June 2015 at 10:09am |
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Afternoon... I'm new here and around 2 months ago decided I wanted more bass in my life and also to start putting on nights playing all the genres I love but never get to hear. Stuff like reggae, dancehall, hip hop, rave, jungle... a lot of oldschool. All I seem to here is the latest techy agro music! So I started with two Alto TS Sub 18 active subs. One of these started rattling after the first party I did with them so I sent both back and got a refund. I then bought four JBL SoundPower P744 18" subs (4 ohm) and two Peavey PV2600 power amps. I then bought a Crown MA3600VZ and a behringer ultradrive. I then got a deal off a mate comprising an amp box containing a behringer EP2500, Crown XLS602 and a DBX Driverack, a soundcraft E12 mixer in a case, two JBL SF25 mid tops, two JBL M-pro 418 passive subs and all the speaker and audio cables I would need for everything. I also have a spare pair of drivers, for which I'm going to house in some as yet undecided and unmade bins. Here's a couple of pics. http://s717.photobucket.com/user/chizzel89/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0035.jpg. -  http://s717.photobucket.com/user/chizzel89/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0053.jpg. -  What I think I need is to use the three sheets of 18mm 13 lam birch ply I have and the two spare drivers (either JBL 2243 or fane studio bass 18 colossus depending which I shove in the JBL M-pro cabs) to build to bass horn type subs to give extra SPL in the 30hz and up range as I feel the reflex cabs start to fall off quite sharply at around 38-40hz. Some would say why bother with reflex cabs, but this system is designed to be able to be broken down and used in small amounts or large amounts. Some gigs I won't even be playing bass music, so one or two reflex subs are ideal for filling out a smaller PA at a Salsa party. Then when I play more ravey nights I'll have 6 reflex subs and two horns (tuned in with the ultradrive). Anyway, this is the system I've cobbled together over 2 months and £2000 which I'm aiming to use in venues of 150-200 people. I'm pleased with how good it sounds... it makes your T-shirt flap and certainly has output below 40hz and is clear and doesn't hurt your ears. The cheapo JBL mid tops actually sound fine if you cross them over around 100hz... below that and it gets muddy, probably due to cheap drivers. Any suggestions much appreciated :) esp on which subs to build to with it! Cheers |
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cookie-dj
Young Croc 
Joined: 09 May 2014 Location: Warwickshire Status: Offline Points: 975 |
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 10:30am |
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Quite the mishmash you've got there!
You could look at using the 4x reflex bins as upper bass. But those midtops look like double 15" that would also kick decently. And you want to build more subs? You already have a decent enough sub and kick section! It's just making the most out of what you already have. |
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You can't polish a turd!
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Darkstar
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Joined: 08 October 2014 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 326 |
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 10:37am |
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Also that's a DCX not a DBX driverack?  Edit: I believe he just wants to make something out of the spare drivers. Edited by Darkstar - 16 June 2015 at 10:38am |
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Bass =/= Enough
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cookie-dj
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Joined: 09 May 2014 Location: Warwickshire Status: Offline Points: 975 |
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 10:51am |
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But then he will have 2x unnamed cabs with said 18" drivers, 4x 18 JBL soundpower subs and 2x JBL m pro subs. All designed to do the sameish frequencies.
Might be better using the 4x sound power subs on the bottom and putting the 2x spare drivers into a pair of ES18 or something similar for kicks. |
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You can't polish a turd!
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charlysays
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Joined: 16 June 2015 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 419 |
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 10:52am |
Yes... well, it's all paired up apart from the Crown 3600 (which I can't afford to get another one of at the moment!) and the EP2500 (which came as part of a job lot, which I don't want another one of anyway lol). I live in the middle of nowhere so to some extent you have to take what you can get, especially in the space of 6-8 weeks. Yeah the mid tops are dual 15". You can feel the kick in your chest. I do want more sub lol.... the 18" reflex cabs kick hard and will flap your trowsers but definitely fall short below 40hz. I did an experiment playing Some Justice by Urban Shakedown. I set the crossover so it was only giving the subs 32-40hz. I wasn't expecting much as a lot of other rave type sound system guys I know regard reflex subs with disdain and say they have "no sub". The window at the other end of the room cracked and my t-shirt was flapping. The thing is I have enough amp power to run another pair of subs- four 8 ohm subs run by the Crown, and four 4 ohm subs run by the two peaveys. I also have three 8X4 sheets of decent birch ply and a pair of spare drivers, so it seems rude not build two more subs and have four times as many subs as tops :) |
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cookie-dj
Young Croc
Joined: 09 May 2014 Location: Warwickshire Status: Offline Points: 975 |
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 10:54am |
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You can run the subs up to 90-100hz.
if you have different speakers playing in the same band your asking for phase/cancellation issues. Edit: reflex do play sub, not sure who told you otherwise Edited by cookie-dj - 16 June 2015 at 10:55am |
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You can't polish a turd!
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charlysays
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 10:54am |
It is... the DBX is out of shot. I actually prefer the DCX! Also out of shot is a broken crown XLS602 lol... Re the extra subs... that's exactly it... I have two spare drivers. They could either be fane colossus studio 18 bass or JBL 2243 depending.
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charlysays
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 11:01am |
Aye, the Xover is around 100hz at the moment. I was under the impression you can use the time delay on the IMS to match up different enclosure designs? Yeah I think my 32-40hz experiment proved that just the four soundpower subs kick out some deep bass... I was wondering if there was something I could use to pump out some air in the 30-40hz range maybe. Even considered a JBL TCB lol But the Cubo Sub looked appealing- apparently they have a short horn and not much time adjustment is needed to run them with reflex cabs?
Edited by charlysays - 16 June 2015 at 11:02am |
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cookie-dj
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 11:05am |
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If the soundpowers sound good 30-40hz then why replace them?
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You can't polish a turd!
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charlysays
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 2:04pm |
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I think they have a steep drop off around 40hz, though I can't find any data sheets for the P744 anywhere. It's weird, it's as though they were only sold in Europe as if you google P744 all the results are mostly german... my test showed that they do have worthwhile response below 40hz but I'm wondering if for big gigs playing stuff like jungle I might want something to reinforce the really low bass?
I'm actually on the trail of a couple of JBL TCBs lol... If I can get them cheap enough who knows!
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Meat
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Joined: 05 June 2009 Location: Manc Status: Offline Points: 1513 |
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 2:20pm |
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You've got a good little system there.
I've heard many criticisms of reflex before but lack of sub... never heard that one before. 40ish Hz tuning is pretty common for 18" reflex. I've used similar tuned (but a bit bigger) 18s for jungle, techno, reggae and all kinds of stuff and there really aren't that many tunes where an extra 10Hz gives you more. My new box is a 30Hz tuned reflex though just because I could as I was building from scratch and had suitable drivers. |
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Don't test the champignon sound
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charlysays
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Posted: 16 June 2015 at 3:07pm |
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Cheers, it's getting there :)
For indoor use in small to medium venues I understand that reflex is a good option... I think some of the horn loaded geezers are just jealous that I only have one slipped disc to date haha. Lots of them tell me that their enormous boxes are twice as effective and go lower though... I'm sure there's something in that, but I don't have a lorry with a tail lift so there's not much point thinking about it! So maybe I should look at building some larger 18" cabs tuned to 30hz? Or build ones which could eventually accommodate 21s for when I've got the money for some modern high power sub drivers? It's easy enough to buy that mesh/grill of the same type that JBL soundpower stuff uses, have the baffle recessed, and glue speaker grill foam to the back of the mesh and mimic the look of the soundpower gear. Anyone know any good 18/21" BR plans which I could make a pair of with 3 sheets of ply?
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cookie-dj wrote: