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need design for punchy 2x15 BR cab, like 15" G-SUB

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Tucker View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 September 2021 at 5:27pm
I'm looking to add 4x15" kick bass drivers to my small setup which would be 2 boxes each containing 2 15" drivers basically a 15" G-sub. I'm after punchy kicks. 

I've been considering going the bass reflex route or going the route of something like 2xHD215s or Cubo Kicks however I play a lot indoors and I've heard about phase issues and dead spots in the room from non-bass reflex speakers in small spaces. I already have 2x18 BR subs but I want to bring out the punchy kick more and add mid-bass presence. 

I'm also wondering if BR speakers can even get punchy enough to really feel it or do you have to go for a more complex box like tapped horn and increase the number of boxes?

My goal setup is 2x2 way powered tops like: (QSC K12.2/EV ELX200-12P/Yamaha DXR12) something like that on top of 4x15" mid-bass kickers on top of 2x18" BR subs. I know people are going to tell me to just run the system without the subs but I already have them and don't want to get rid of them. I just want to add to the current setup.

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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2021 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by Tucker Tucker wrote:

I'm looking to add 4x15" kick bass drivers to my small setup which would be 2 boxes each containing 2 15" drivers basically a 15" G-sub. I'm after punchy kicks.
Is this a single stack or dual stacks?

Originally posted by Tucker Tucker wrote:

I've been considering going the bass reflex route or going the route of something like 2xHD215s or Cubo Kicks however I play a lot indoors and I've heard about phase issues and dead spots in the room from non-bass reflex speakers in small spaces.
Dead spots in a room is a physics of audio thing that has nothing to do with the type of speaker used and everything to do with the wavelengths in question and the position of the speakers relative to boundaries. 

Originally posted by Tucker Tucker wrote:

I already have 2x18 BR subs but I want to bring out the punchy kick more and add mid-bass presence.
You could just boost the kickbass frequencies with an EQ. If the speakers are capable this will give the same result as adding dedicated kicks, but if you are using a typical crossover frequency between the tops and subs(80-100hz) then the subs aren't producing much of the kick and the tops aren't capable enough. You can try raising the crossover higher and boosting EQ, that is easy enoiugh to do with passive speakers but isn't an option with powered boxes so adding a pair of 15"s and making it a 3-way setup should do a good job. 

Originally posted by Tucker Tucker wrote:

I'm also wondering if BR speakers can even get punchy enough to really feel it or do you have to go for a more complex box like tapped horn and increase the number of boxes?
They can.

Originally posted by Tucker Tucker wrote:

My goal setup is 2x2 way powered tops like: (QSC K12.2/EV ELX200-12P/Yamaha DXR12) something like that on top of 4x15" mid-bass kickers on top of 2x18" BR subs.
How many subs you have? 4 kicks with 2 tops and 2 subs seems unbalanced to me. 

Originally posted by Tucker Tucker wrote:

I know people are going to tell me to just run the system without the subs
I don't understand why anybody would say that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tucker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2021 at 7:57pm
I've reconsidered my plans and I'm just going to run 4 18" subs. Which would be 2 boxes each with dual eighteens. Similar to Martin WS218Xs. I purchased 4 B&C 18TBX100.

What do you think would be the optimal crossover point if I had 4 subs underneath something like a DXR12 or K12?

If the crossover is like 80/90 hz I'm concerned some of the upper kick bass frequencies will be weak in the 100-140 range however like you said I may be able to fix that with eq.


Edited by Tucker - 13 October 2021 at 7:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2021 at 9:06pm
Depends on the type of music you play and how you'll set up.

As you go higher in frequency, it's easier to localise where sound is coming from, and higher XO freq's like 150 etc can start to become a little odd sounding as you realise that some of the low mids are coming from down on the floor (ie your subs). This is especially true if there is a larger gap between the tops & subs, eg where the tops are flown rather than stacked right on the subs. Once you've heard vocals for example, or other melody type instruments moving around from speaker to speaker, you'll realise why typical XO frequencies are where they are.

That upper bass/low mid content is also a bit more likely to be blocked if you get a fairly packed crowd in front of your speakers so people further back may lose out slightly on hearing the full mix.
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Tucker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tucker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2021 at 9:24pm
That actually makes a lot of sense. I'll probably have the speakers usually set up in one stack with the subs on top of each other and the 12" powered tops above that splayed out.

I'll be playing mostly house, techno, and other electronic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2021 at 10:11pm
I think you will find the kick region lacking with dual 18" subs and 12+1 tops, the solution to that would be adding dedicated 15" kick bins and processing or buy 15" 3-way tops instead. The second option may not give you the same level of control however. 
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oren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2021 at 10:54pm
You couldTry these out it's a new design from sound agency (FR) https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1Bd28zaxq94cy-6mHYWJEs_MF1cocligC?usp=sharing&fbclid=IwAR1VrECn_-mwyuTmgFFZ5dLVwsKm82BU-rYWreZbtMZAZNm_u6IOWSG_5o0
Not super high range for kick but came to mind when you said g sub (not quite same design but dual 15 none the less 



Edited by oren - 13 October 2021 at 10:57pm
Music is nice..
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oren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2021 at 10:55pm
Specs and plan in the link
Music is nice..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fat_brstd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2021 at 11:31pm
Double 18 subs can sound good up to as high as 200hz, personally I would keep it to no higher than 160 but you can go higher if you have to.

With something like a K12.2 I would run the subs to 160hz and use the inbuilt processing in the top to cut off at 100hz, a bit of overlap never hurt anyone and that way you will still have coherent mids with the low mid coming from the mid range driver but you will also get the maximum out of your subs.

This is all very music dependent though, the above will work for most music but if its super sub heavy bass music you want to play then bringing the low pass down on the subs will help with increasing definition in the sub end.

Experimentation is your friend in situations like this, you have to play around to get the absolute best out of what you have.
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