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New 2x15 reflex sub design

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citizensc View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 August 2016 at 4:17pm
Hi guys

Australia is a difficult place build good subs mostly because of driver availability. You cant air freight an 18 inch driver from Europe because of the magnetic content. Sea freight is very expensive and takes upwards of 10 weeks. 

Most DIY designs out there require 18 inch drivers. 1850 horn, g sub, sbh, most scoops, x1 ... the list goes on. There is the Punisher that uses a 12 but getting the 12.00sw right now is very difficult, especially from Aus. There is also the LAB horn but that isn't free of issues either. (build cost, build difficulty, size, weight, need group of 4 to work properly, cost to amp properly with 2 drivers per cab)

With all this in mind iv decided i'm going take the initiative and design a 2x15 cab for Australians and anyone else who struggles to get larger drivers. With enough support/help from people on here I will design build and test/measure a cab and make the plans publicly available. 

My design goals are:
->130db spl from 2x15 cab
-tight sound, focus is on dance music like house, tech, disco etc.
-f3 between 35 and 40hz. Probably closer to 40hz as the 8 punishers I have go plenty deep enough.
-light weight drivers to make shipping easier
-Sound takes priority over building a compact light weight cab. 

First step is to find some suitable drivers. After looking at t/s paramaters for a bunch of drivers iv narrowed it down to three. 
PDN.15BR40 - http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PDN15BR40
15NLW9500 - http://www.eighteensound.it/PRODUCTS456/Products123/CatID/8/ProdID/56#.V7MpLZh96DM
Colossus 15XBN - http://www.fane-international.com/prod_details.aspx?pid=515

Here are some sims in a 2x15 300L cab tuned to 39hz of the 3 drivers. pink is the 15XBN, White is the 15NLW9500, Purple is the PDN.15BR40.









The xbn is a clear looser from what I can see. Highest group delay, loses spl down low. According to the graphs it looks like the PDN.15BR40 is the winner by a smidge, lowest group delay, flattest frequency response. Also has the largest xmax but looking at the t/s parameters the 18sound is a tighter driver which will help meet my goal of a tight sound. (higher BL, lower qts) 

Looking at all of this what would your driver choice be?

My next step will be to narrow down on cab size, tuning then do a drawing of the cab.

Let me know what you guys think so far. Am I on the right track? Is there a big flaw in my thinking? 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated
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odc04r View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2016 at 5:09pm
I don't think a simulation is accurate enough to take the very small amount in group delay etc literally from those graphs. They performances are all close enough such that real world effects that simulation won't predict could swing a choice. Can't comment on that sorry.

Surely all of those European drivers are still very expensive in Australia? I would have thought your best value/availability option might be P-Audio?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2016 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by odc04r odc04r wrote:

Surely all of those European drivers are still very expensive in Australia? I would have thought your best value/availability option might be P-Audio?




Thomann has flat rate shipping to aus of 50 euro. This combined with Aus not having to pay VAT means drivers are a very similar cost to in europe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2016 at 9:09pm
Beyma 15G40 or 15LX60 are very good drivers in compact 15" reflex cabs but not neo unfortunately.

If you're looking for a fairly tight, punchy sound and are happy with a cut-off at about 40Hz, then I would suggest looking at drivers with slightly lighter cones and you shouldn't need a cab bigger than 200-250L.  My single 15" design is only about 80L!  Most drivers will have the excursion and power handling available to be able to EQ the low end up slightly, so don't worry too much about getting the natural response flat to 40Hz.


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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2016 at 10:58pm
How is sea fright very expensive? Just got a quote for 20ft container from Skopje, Macedonia to Perth.
2200 usd. For a 20ft container. And 980 usd of that amount is the truck transport from here to the Greek port.


Edited by MarjanM - 16 August 2016 at 10:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote feliz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 8:57am
With the exchange rate thats a shit load.
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 9:15am
What is shit load? 2200 us$? You can fit about 100 double 18s in one 20ft container.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote feliz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 9:21am
Well the AUD is weak against the USD and he's looking for 4 cabnets, soo relative to the build 2900 ausie dollars is a lot to ship 8 drivers. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 10:34am
Thomann can get anything you want in, so don't be limited to their advertised range. Shoot them emails re the drivers you want. It can get expensive, though sometimes it can work out well. 

Tbh, the best way is set up a supply channel with distributor on here; Paulie Paul, Bee, Marjan etc. This means access to better prices (Thomann is relatively expensive), advice, reliability, group buys, helps others in the future etc. 

Get in touch with John at Global Freight Network and say hello to the international market. We're not at all limited over here, we're just not experienced in the global market. For e.g. Most younger builders from Oz will let the costs of overseas shipping from various web-shops be a major influence in their component selection processes. However, at the end of a worthwhile build, the $400aud / pallet costs of private sea freight become negligible in the overall budget and the networks established are very valuable too. 

It's worthwhile considering anyway.

Also, take your time with the design process and ask lots of questions.


Edited by Keen - 17 August 2016 at 12:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 10:38am
double post

Edited by Keen - 17 August 2016 at 10:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by feliz feliz wrote:

Well the AUD is weak against the USD and he's looking for 4 cabnets, soo relative to the build 2900 ausie dollars is a lot to ship 8 drivers. 

I just shipped a cnc machine of 450kg from China for 335us$. So sea fright is not expensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 12:36pm
Thinking about this more; 

If anyone is going to put the time into designing something worthwhile, don't start the design process from the position of 'this is what's available to me, let me get the best possible from this'. It's very fun and satisfying to do this if you've got bits and pieces lying around the place to make use of, but if starting fresh, it makes no sense to begin from this limited position. 

So many compromises have to be made along the way to a successful design that you need all the help you can get, to begin with. 

Definitely start by establishing what you want the design to achieve and what compromises do you have to consider in order to make it a viable project. 

Sure, you can make a great sub with some of the stuff on Thomann, but it's limited and in the end you'll regret it because of what you learn along the way. Start with the box, then pick the absolute best driver, all things considered.

Citizen - I'd start again, considering 15's, 18's, 21's - whatever you want. You can have any driver you want at the same price anyone else around the world is paying for it. Worry less about the driver and more about how you're going to get that driver to do what you want, i.e. worry about the enclosure. Focus on this and you'll end up with the right driver in the right design. 






Edited by Keen - 02 May 2017 at 10:38am
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