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New 2x15 reflex sub design
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 February 2005
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Points: 7702 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 1:26pm
If you want premium performance from a 2x15 you should use premium components.
Something along BMS 15N850 or Faital 15XL1400. Those are the drivers that in a 2x15 box will get close to an average 2x18 box in performance.

For all the rest, you better use 18 inch drivers because most of the average 18 inch drivers like P-audio Challenger 18 will piss all over any other 2x15 box made with the components you are considering.

Just my 2 cents.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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citizensc View Drop Down
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Points: 526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

If you want premium performance from a 2x15 you should use premium components.
Something along BMS 15N850 or Faital 15XL1400. Those are the drivers that in a 2x15 box will get close to an average 2x18 box in performance.

For all the rest, you better use 18 inch drivers because most of the average 18 inch drivers like P-audio Challenger 18 will piss all over any other 2x15 box made with the components you are considering.

Just my 2 cents.

By performance do you mean SPL? or do you mean in sound quality to? Id expect a 15inch reflex to sound tighter then an 18 but the 18 to be louder and deeper (depending on tuning).


I think the CMS is wrong? or the Vas? I'm not really sure but bass box pro does not like it.
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citizensc View Drop Down
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Points: 526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Keen Keen wrote:

Thinking about this more; 

If anyone is going to put the time into designing something worthwhile, don't start the design process from the position of 'this is what's available to me, let me get the best possible from this'. It's very fun and satisfying to do this if you've got bits and pieces lying around the place to make use of, but if starting fresh, it makes no sense to begin from this limited position. 

So many compromises have to be made along the way to a successful design that you need all the help you can get, to begin with. 

Definitely start by establishing what you want the design to achieve and what compromises do you have to consider in order to make it a viable project. 

Sure, you can make a great sub with some of the stuff on Thomann, but starting the process of design from what's available on a web-shop is like looking at the finger that's pointing to the moon.... don't look at the finger, or you'll miss all the heavenly glory ;p

Citizen - I'd start again, considering 15's, 18's, 21's - whatever you want. You can have any driver you want at the same price anyone else around the world is paying for it. Worry less about the driver and more about how you're going to get that driver to do what you want, i.e. worry about the enclosure. Focus on this and you'll end up with the right driver in the right design. 

I did actually start by deciding what kind of box I wanted to make. Thats why I simmed them all in a 39hz 300 liter box. I wan an f3 of a little bit below 40, tight sound and im not concerned about size. Im thinking now that 300 liter is a little big so it will probs end up about 200-250. 

I didn't just choose those drivers because they were on thomann, i looked at a lot of other drivers too but they seemed to best fit the idea I have in my head of a good reflex driver. If you have better ideas for drivers let me know, im here to learn. 

I think 15 is suitable for this project because i'm after a tight sound but maybe its a misconception that a 15 is better for this?

Lastly I think Thomann is fine for small orders. I challenge any of the people you have named to ship 4 drivers to Australia from europe for under $300. Thomann can do it for $70. I can see sea freight being good if I wanted 100 drivers but I don't. I also dont want to wait 10 weeks for an order. 


Edited by citizensc - 17 August 2016 at 2:37pm
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7702 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by citizensc citizensc wrote:

Originally posted by Keen Keen wrote:

Thinking about this more; 

If anyone is going to put the time into designing something worthwhile, don't start the design process from the position of 'this is what's available to me, let me get the best possible from this'. It's very fun and satisfying to do this if you've got bits and pieces lying around the place to make use of, but if starting fresh, it makes no sense to begin from this limited position. 

So many compromises have to be made along the way to a successful design that you need all the help you can get, to begin with. 

Definitely start by establishing what you want the design to achieve and what compromises do you have to consider in order to make it a viable project. 

Sure, you can make a great sub with some of the stuff on Thomann, but starting the process of design from what's available on a web-shop is like looking at the finger that's pointing to the moon.... don't look at the finger, or you'll miss all the heavenly glory ;p

Citizen - I'd start again, considering 15's, 18's, 21's - whatever you want. You can have any driver you want at the same price anyone else around the world is paying for it. Worry less about the driver and more about how you're going to get that driver to do what you want, i.e. worry about the enclosure. Focus on this and you'll end up with the right driver in the right design. 

I did actually start by deciding what kind of box I wanted to make. Thats why I simmed them all in a 39hz 300 liter box. I wan an f3 of a little bit below 40, tight sound and im not concerned about size. Im thinking now that 300 liter is a little big so it will probs end up about 200-250. 

I didn't just choose those drivers because they were on thomann, i looked at a lot of other drivers too but they seemed to best fit the idea I have in my head of a good reflex driver. If you have better ideas for drivers let me know, im here to learn. 

I think 15 is suitable for this project because i'm after a tight sound but maybe its a misconception that a 15 is better for this?

Lastly I think Thomann is fine for small orders. I challenge any of the people you have named to ship 4 drivers to Australia from europe for under $300. Thomann can do it for $70. I can see sea freight being good if I wanted 100 drivers but I don't. I also dont want to wait 10 weeks for an order. 

I will ask for a quote. But 70us$ is quite unrealistic. They want 50 to ship 4 18 inch drivers to me. And i am in Europe.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Keen View Drop Down
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Points: 1177 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2016 at 4:19pm
True, small orders are good.

Distributor = better prices so it equals out though. 

This is the lesser point also. Main point being the design process. You want this to be a worthwhile job, not just another 215 reflex. Otherwise just get some drivers and chuck em in the recommended enclosure from the manufacturer, job done. 

Maybe buy one driver from thomann and experiment with it, in different boxes. Large reflex, bp6, push-pull (2 drivers), Q15 type design from Tony Wilkes (RIP) etc. There's heaps you can do, and try, and learn and end up with something really good. I know it is what you're doing anyway, but I'm just suggesting don't rush into it. 

It's ideas like 'high BL and low qt's = punchy sound' that need a bit more investigating. There's a lot more to it and the design is just as important if not more imp than the driver.

10 weeks is nothing, it takes 10 weeks to understand 1 of the many types of reflex designs to consider and sim etc.

And go with 18's for sure
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