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New RCF bass neo drivers 16"/19" |
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Crashpc 
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Joined: 26 February 2008 Location: Czech Republic Status: Offline Points: 539 |
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 Posted: 11 March 2024 at 4:18am |
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Still not much solid data but it says what I say. Copper is better for cooling. That was the consensus.
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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Crashpc
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Joined: 26 February 2008 Location: Czech Republic Status: Offline Points: 539 |
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 4:28am |
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While the manufacturer himself: "perfect for vented enclosures where power and low-frequency extension are priorities." 4" CCAW long stroke coil is all but suitable for horn loading. It would certainly burn its coil much faster than drivers with just 6-9mm (Cu)coil overhang. Small signal parameters do not tell anything about large signal usability. That is long standing bogus too. Modern low Qes drivers need different approach and differnt driving signal than conventional solutions from past. At no point stronger motor driver(high Bl, low Qes) should be reason for speaker to be put strictly in specific enclosure. This is clearly mechanically "ported box driver", and low frequency sensitivity due to high motor strength is to be dealt with on the signal side by applying proper voltages where necessary. We are dragging this topic for years now. Would you be willing to discuss/adress it somehow "once for all/forever"? Edited by Crashpc - 11 March 2024 at 4:33am |
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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Elliot Thompson
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Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5365 |
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 6:34am |
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The parameters are very similar to the Precision Devices PD 1850 from a Qts, Qes & fs standpoint ranging from version one to version three. Don't get persuaded by RCF's marketing department. Best Regards,
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Elliot Thompson
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RoadRunnersDust
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 9:05am |
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It doesn’t say that copper is better for cooling if you actually read the thread as opposed to skim through it looking for the information that confirms your bias
 It states that copper is better at sinking heat as it has a higher SHC. Aluminium is still better for getting heat out of a system due to its lower SHC and better radiant properties, hence why it is still the preferred method in high W/mk heat sinks to use a copper plate and cores with aluminium fins
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Crashpc
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Joined: 26 February 2008 Location: Czech Republic Status: Offline Points: 539 |
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 9:46am |
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Yes. That standpoint I am afraid is not enough, and ignoring the context is not advised. 5" copper coil on large magnet that can absorb and dissipate a lot of heat is not the same. Coil overhang 8mm against ~13mm is not the same, and that matters.
Well, that is nonconclusive. Maybe it is marketing ballast, maybe it is good technical advice. There is no fact in it that would say truth about it. Well, we know RCD does a lot of good stuff. They know their stuff. Why would they lie about exactly that... I mean, whatever, but it is not a technical argument to deny a recommendation. I would like to hear why it is a hor driver and why it is not a ported box driver.
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Crashpc
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 9:47am |
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I might read it again, but I took different information from that. I see the consensus is that copper is better. I saw nothing but subjective argumets. No math to support these claims.
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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MarjanM
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 11:33am |
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PD1850 might be 5 inch vc and big magnet but people were popping them every second gig they were out. Not very reliable drivers, contrary to mainstream beleif.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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DMorison
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 12:21pm |
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Skin effect is real, but matters most at higher frequencies. The wiki article on it says skin depth for copper is 8.5mm @60Hz, so I believe the weight & cost reasons are the more important ones.
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Crashpc
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 1:46pm |
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Welp, DIY horn crowd, techno and all that stuff, garage amps, DJs, processing. Not all can be blamed on drivers. I have no idea. I have the brand for very reliable and good, but it might not be so. But that actually proves my point - TS parameters do not say much really about usability, reliability and such. Much more has to be taken into consideration.
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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Crashpc
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 1:49pm |
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My mistake. You´re right. I got mingled how electricity travels and how electron current travels. Indeed, The difference for conductivity will not be that much different between Al and CCA possibly. Datasheets support your claim very well.
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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Elliot Thompson
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 2:23pm |
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Since you are still having difficulty understanding TS Parameters, I will put it this way... You can put any driver in a ported box. Ported boxes are very forgiving. However, it does not mean you can achieve low bass if the loudspeaker is incapable of producing it.
That method with the wrong driver will bring forth a lot of mechanical noise. XMAX is not a part of the TS Parameters calculation. The TS Parameters determines how low of a frequency a loudspeaker can produce. The PD 1850 and the RCF drivers you are mentioning offer very similar TS Parameters. So the low frequency response will be very similiar. The XMAX can only amplify what the voice coil can audibly produce. If the voice coil cannot produce the frequency asked, the xmax will still move up and down like a piston with a lot of mechanical noise. Best Regards,
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Elliot Thompson
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Lucasdude
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Posted: 11 March 2024 at 2:25pm |
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Well, I used to bash the hell out of 1850s and 1550s in the 90s and I never lost one. I did however manage to blast all 4 of the dust caps off the 1550s one night at a techno gig but they all still worked fine! Edited by Lucasdude - 11 March 2024 at 2:27pm |
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Lucasdude wrote: