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New single BR

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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New single BR
    Posted: 12 March 2019 at 11:09am
And there I am again with again opting for a BR build LOL
My current setup is not suited anymore , so I'm looking for something new and smaller.

What do I need?
-Not more then 300L external
-Low profile so it's easy to stack two + top cabinet with pole
-Strong till 35 Hz
-Output good enough for It's size

So obviously this can be done with some BR cabs!

At the moment I'm busy with designing a cab with triangle ports (and I know the tradeoffs), but they are pretty big (short sides 17x17cm).
Internal net volume will be laying (ideally) around 180L, but then comes the drivers choice..

Current short(long)-list:
-B&C 18SW115, absolutely a beast but maybe overbuild for BR applications.
-B&C 18SW100 little brother of the 18SW115 but more suited parameters for BR applications (sims also better then 18SW115). 
-18sound 18TLW3000, I'm reading some pretty good reviews of it on German forums, and some even say it's better then the 18SW115 in a BR cab, but also the most expensive option.
-Faital Pro 18XL1600 can't find much about this driver but it simulates good in winisd.
-Faital Pro 18XL2000 Spec wise looks allot like the 18SW115
-RCF LF18N405 new RCF driver which It hink they use in their new high-end BR cabs
Current amplification is Crown IT-8000, but I'm planning on an upgrade in the future.

Obviously the best way would be to test all drivers in practice but I just can't afford that, so I'm depending on reviews to shorten the list to two drivers, maybe three drivers to test.
I'm planning on finishing the first drawings this week, so will post them by the end of this week.
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Jo bg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 5:49pm
Hi Smitske, we seem to follow similar paths again

I am keeping the bigger system but planning from long time to build smaller BR subs for dj booth/b-rig, with aim more to quality and decent extension than spl.

I am using 18sw115 in my ths so i thought about using them, they allow for very small enclosures, but went for cheaper ceramic b&c 18tbw100 instead.
i got a good price on second hand and decided i didn't need the ultimate output (and premium price) of 18sw115, still got the tapped horns for huge spl.

So i've got the drivers sitting there, i settled on a design with shelf port like the b&c sub, and ended around 180 internal liters too as good compromise (in winsd at least, but i'm gonna keep an option open to play with port lenght once the first is built and measured), but can't fine the time to finalize this and start the build righ now.
so i am following!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 9:54pm
look up Scott Hinson on FaceAche... He's put together a fairly comprehensive DIY design for about what you're looking at

Buying myself a TFL-760H... piece by piece >.<
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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 10:49pm
I've read the write-up it does look good but the single version does need some extra port area for drivers with more xmax. The dual version has more , but is not ideaal with handle placement. I would like the cabinet as high as ~50cm in normal use, so having handles on the side is the goal. Also designing something on your own is always more fun Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Also designing something on your own is always more fun Smile

Totally, which is why i came onto this forum to learn enough to do just this.

Its a sense of satisfaction to know that your cabs are built to do what you wanted, not what someone else needed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 7:13pm
Hey smitske. Apart from PM, here once again.
All else being equal, if you have good amp giving you good voltage swing, you always go for driver with more displacement volume and motor force. These are basic predispositions for output. There is no reason why 18SW100 should win against beastier beasts.

With WinISD and many other simulators, you do not see full story. It looks at the speaker in not very good angle of view.

I put my 21DS115 in 125l box, and I still thing it has great power density and size/value ratios compared to some mentioned drivers.  The maximum SPL output should also be greater.
Do not look at sims for optimums. It usually doesn´t show you efficiency, and large signal reliability, which are major elements in the equations. These are "completely" missing in many simulators.


Edited by Crashpc - 13 March 2019 at 7:16pm
Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:41pm
I'm indeed opting for a 21", but the main problem would be it's hight. 55cm would be the max, so I'm busy with designing a 21" reflex which is only 55 high 65 wide and atm 80cm deep. It looks like the TW audio BSX cut in half but frontal area is smaller. Port is ~62cm x 10cm , and also pretty long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 7:13pm
So at the moment I'm also busy with the 21" version for the B&C 21DS115-8.
Main problem is the max height of ~55 cm , so I have to angle the driver.
Main disadvantage is the wasted space in front of the driver, it also needs a big port(s), so another challenge. I'll probably get some gain from the angle but higher up then the desired response, which is 30-90 Hz.

This is the first sketch (absolutely not the final one):

-The driver panel can be shifted forward some more for extra internal volume.
-Extending the port in front of the driver panel is an option, but would give me some problems with installing/uninstalling the driver. So making that part removable or mounting the driver from the inside via a removable panel above is necessary. If done this way the port can be made shorter in the back which results in more net internal volume.
-There will be bracing but not on the sketch yet.

Why 21"? First of all I'm still not sure which way to go.
The 21DS is pretty cheap for me (10 euros more then the 18SW115)
And ofcourse I'm after max results from what is possible.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 7:27pm
To me it looks like the volume available for the driver would be about 100l. That is finally too small for 21". You really need to get to 125l or above for fastest drivers like 21DS115. 18" makes more sense here, for cone excursion reasons. Namely 18DS115, or possibly models with more cone excursion (Faital? BMS?). The 21" would not move enough to cool itself down.
Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 7:43pm
At the moment net volume is 110L, moving the driver panel a bit to the front and extending the port to the front gives 20L extra. Also the depth of the cabinet can be made 85cm which gives another 15L. So 145 L total.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crashpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 7:56pm
Yes. The speaker takes about 10l, handles and braces usually another 5l. So with those enhancements, you´re at 130l netto, and that´s the way to go. You either make it hard (but I support this extreme approach), or you go easy with 18". The good thing is that with the hard approach, it is proved that it works with this driver. The outcome and output will be there. I didn´t have such luck with developing other boxes though. My 21DS115 now sits in 125l box happily, so if you have the nerve to make difficult box, I encourage you to do that with this driver...

How about your amplifiers for these beasts? You need to get some amps capable of delivering high output voltages. 120-140VRMS is preferable for harder music, 140-180V for milder program content with 8Ohm drivers.


Edited by Crashpc - 14 March 2019 at 7:56pm
Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 7:58pm
At the moment it is a crown IT8000, but on a later stage I want to step up.

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