|
New to the world of 5kw+ amps |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
DeckstersLab 
New Member 
Joined: 18 August 2021 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: New to the world of 5kw+ ampsPosted: 18 August 2021 at 7:55am |
|
I’m looking for 4 amps to run 3400w program subwoofer speakers so I’m needing a minimum of 7kw(6.8kw but whatever) per channel. Price is no object, I’m willing to wait and save to make sure I get all the power I need while keeping good sound quality. My experience up to this point has been RMX/PLX models from qsc and XTI models from crown, so I’m obviously in need of a different model or moving to a whole different manufacturer. Suggestions and why you suggest them are greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
|
|
 |
|
|
Elliot Thompson
Old Croc 
Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 August 2021 at 6:20pm |
|
Sinbosen offers an amplifier that delivers 7500 watts per channel @ 4 ohms stereo mode. That is based upon Crest Factor so, you should be hovering around 5200 watts per channel @ 4 ohms, continuous average power. There is no major feedback on this amplifier at the moment.
You can forget about QSC and pretty much all American Amplifiers offering that type of power as, they are focusing primarily on powered speakers. Not to mention, the standard in the United States is, 120 volts. So, current demands to accomplish the above power ratings will be challenging to achieve, from their US customers that, are not willing to step up to 240 volts.
If price is not an object, you may be better off going for the Powersoft X 4L. You should be getting around 4800 watts per channel continuous average power @ 4 ohms Stereo Mode which, equates to around the advertised specification of 6800 watts per channel @ 4 ohms (Crest Factor).
Best Regards,
Edited by Elliot Thompson - 18 August 2021 at 7:11pm |
|
|
Elliot Thompson
|
|
|
|
|
Jo bg
Young Croc 
Joined: 08 March 2017 Status: Offline Points: 552 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 August 2021 at 9:59am |
|
A word of caution... Even if the specs say 3400 program 6.8 peak , once loaded in a box 7 kw will probably bottom them out (actually I just bottomed some top of the line 3400 watt B&C drivers, one of the best manufacturers, with just 2500 watts) 3400 will cook them ina few minutes - not talking about the power compression losses.
Then consider that Watts are a misleading measure for speaker as there are impedance and crest factor in play. Learning how Voltage work would give you a better insight - they are voltage multipliers after all.
If you really want to give them all the juice possible you need different kind of limiters in place, from quick peak limiter to prevent mechanical damage, to Slower "program" limiters and even slower, thermal limiters that limit to something like 500 watts after some seconds. Spend some time reading the forum about limiters crest factors and amplifiers, especially posts by Toastyghoast who explained this well many times - and works daily with such monsters with splendid results. Keep in mind that due to power compression going from 3 to 6 kW will yield probably 1 dB increase instead of the theretical 3 dB - actually good drivers approach 3dB of compression at program power. Driver will also be severely out of its parameters by then. So maybe leaving a dB or two on the table is not a bad idea. You save on Amps and recones and the rig would probably sound better. Anyway, look at powersoft X series, or powersoft k20 DSP ( older and cheaper , DSP for the limiters), or Ffa, or the bigger labgruppen. Linea research has some interesting models but I never heard them, if Toasty is using the bigger models with Danley he could giv a feedback. Talking about originals here, not Chinese copies, can't comment about that as I never touched them - I would go with a big pile of behringers instead on the cheap, at least they have warranty, and if used within limits they have a surprising price/power ratio. One hint, look at the power supply rating... Can't drive 8 subs heavily if it only takes 16a singl phase.... You need 32a capable amps, or three phase like the X series. |
|
|
|
|
PISSHEAD
Young Croc
Joined: 24 July 2004 Location: West Midlands Status: Offline Points: 584 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 August 2021 at 10:40am |
|
Hi mate, What subs are you running and in what config? |
|
|
The 'drunken master' strikes again.
|
|
|
|
|
DeckstersLab
New Member
Joined: 18 August 2021 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 August 2021 at 9:38pm |
|
I’m using B&C 18DS115 in a loaded horn “paraflex”
I am aware of the fact that the manufacturers specs aren’t true to a real world application(mostly because of reading articles on this forum actually) but that’s why I’m looking for the ratings I am. My main focus is outdoor festival concert events so air temperatures may already be close to 100 degrees before anything even has power to it. For that reason I felt that having an amp that can output enough to push the driver to its full potential(assuming both amp and driver “real world” specs will be comparable. I.e. if the amp specs say 7k but for music can only handle 5k without heat issues, and like you said a 3400 program rating only handling 2500 for any extended duration *correct me if I’m wrong there*) For the reason above I am looking into 7k peak amps, and as you mentioned, am having a hard time finding anything from the brands I’ve used to date. I want the “headroom” because to my understanding if you want any mechanical/electrical system to last you should be running about 85-90% full capability and 90% may be pushing it a bit depending on conditions. That being said if I’m not pushing the system to it’s limits that will help me with overheating issues as well. I am using a behringer xair consol with a compressor but I will definitely look into some of the toastyghost articles thank you. I’ve had my eye on the lab gruppen fp14000 but am not sure how to feel about their class TD. I know d is preferred by most for subwoofers so AB isn’t really on my radar but the TD intrigued me and I struggled to find any articles about it so if you have any info or can point me in the right direction that would be helpful. Thank you for the quick, very informational response!
|
|
|
|
|
bob4
Old Croc
Joined: 29 February 2004 Location: Finland/Germany Status: Offline Points: 1843 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 August 2021 at 5:29am |
Ds115 series have very strong motors and can require more voltage to get going due to higher impedance (depends on cabinet type). The spec you should be looking at is peak voltage per channel. Bridging amps can be a method to achieve high enough peak voltages (peak voltage doubles in bridge mode). Search for member "crashpc"s posts. He has experimented extensively with 18ds115 and 21ds115. The other day I was checking some bridged, lower end second hand crown xls2000 and xls2500 amps (rated 650 and 750 watts/ channel) on a 21ds115 in a reflex box. I don't know how the amps would perform being punished with dubstep or trap from dusk til dawn, but the sub was shaking the lockup..... we barely hit the -10dB led Edited by bob4 - 20 August 2021 at 5:37am |
|
|
|
|
Elliot Thompson
Old Croc
Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 August 2021 at 6:39am |
|
If I had the B&C 18DS115 speakers at my disposal, I would be aiming for the most powerful amplifiers on the market to drive them properly.
It just doesn't make sense in my experience, to buy an amplifier that is going to run out of gas (Clip) before meeting half the loudspeaker's “Continuous Program Power Capacity” when wiring two 8-ohm nominal loudspeakers on each channel to equate a 4-ohm nominal load. Particularly when you are willing to invest in the proper tool to get the job done. I can see your reasoning in wanting an amplifier that can delver anywhere from 6.8 – 7 kW per channel @ 4 ohms.
I don't think many understand what it is like to have amplifiers on loudspeakers that are so powerful that you can achieve optimum performance from the loudspeakers without the amplifiers ever clipping (or using some means of limiter to prevent clipping) during the process. The overall sound quality will improve.
To my knowledge the only amplifiers available on the market at the date of writing that are capable of getting that done is the Powersoft X 4L, the Sinbosen FP 24000 and/or the Admark K35. If I stumble upon anything else that falls within that power realm, I will let you know.
Best Regards,
Edited by Elliot Thompson - 20 August 2021 at 7:09am |
|
|
Elliot Thompson
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
| Tweet |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
DeckstersLab wrote: