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newb question- mid/top for x1?

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boycey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 January 2007 at 5:33am
*newb alert*
 
i'm planning to build a pair of x1s as the starting point for my rig. i need to know what type of mid/tops to build, whether upperbass/kick speakers are essential (we play techno/breaks/dnb). i'm considering the horn vs reflex thing and i'm erring towards horns cos they're damn sexy but i have some drivers (peavey black widow 1505s X4) that will be excellent in reflex mid cabs and just about go down to 100hz according to winisd. sooo- would a mix of reflex/horns present problems? if x1s can be used beneath either i may effectively build 2 systems for different sized venues... but really i know nothing and input from someone more knowledgeable than myself and less opinionated than my mates would be greatly appreciated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 7:11am
You could use the Peaveys to build a pair of twin 15" mid tops, or if you wanted to go further a pair of upper bass/low mid bins with some smaller mid tops above those.

Horns are indeed nice but unless you're planning to build a large rig they might not be the route to go down.

Bandpass cabinets such as the X1 are not easy to align with any other cabinet but if you have a digital crossover you should be able to get it close enough whether it's horns or reflex cabs above.

The key questions are exactly how big a rig do you want to build, how good are your woodworking skills etc.


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boycey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boycey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by ceharden ceharden wrote:

if you wanted to go further a pair of upper bass/low mid bins with some smaller mid tops above those.


that's pretty much what i'm looking at woodwork skills aren't a prob- i'm working with a chippie of 20yrs experience with a full workshop [i almost feel it would be a waste not to build something complicated] i was looking at the mt102 or the similar selenium plan. a reasonably large system is the overall aim of the project, hopefully with the flexibility to remove parts of the kit for use in smaller venues. in terms of x-over, a pair of behringer ultradrives so we can set delays for any horns and also have spare channels for adding more stuff for bigger parties [possibly ending up with a 5way stereo setup].

your help is greatly appreciated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Grime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 1:52pm
Boycey,
I do not think the MT102 would work above the X1 without a mid box.
The X 15 tops may be a better option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 6:51pm
A typical large setup for your type of application would be X1's on sub, kick horns eg HD15 or similar then horn loaded mid-tops with a 12" and 1.4/2" compression driver.

If you want a really hard kick drum for house/trance/techno then a kick bin is quite important.  For other styles of music you can get away with subs and mid-tops which play lower.

I'm actually working on building a similar system at the moment and have designed a twin 15" horn to cover the 60-160Hz region.  It's not a proven design yet but initial results are promising.  Look for CHA215 in the new projects section.  X1's would be ideal to do the sub-bass underneath and for mid-tops either single 12" horn loaded (eg Porn Horns) or twin 12" direct radiating (eg X12) mids plus a large format compression driver would be ideal.

I haven't looked at the specs of the Black Widows recently but they might work in a 15" horn design.


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boycey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boycey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2007 at 4:55am
Originally posted by Joe Grime Joe Grime wrote:

Boycey,
I do not think the MT102 would work above the X1 without a mid box.
The X 15 tops may be a better option.
 
i'm building twin 15" reflex cabs [i have 4 peavey 1505 bw drivers] as mids.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boycey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2007 at 5:15am

a friend has recomended the USB as a kick horn, this would probably be done further down the line. the immediate aim is to get a working rig for parties/hireouts that we can build on.

the plan as it stands so far, first phase of build: pair of x1s and pair of twin 15 mids.
 
second phase: build tops, the selenium pas2ma1s are f**king sexy, as are the mt102s. if there's no reason not to build these [would i be better going for full a reflex system?] then they would also lead onto the next stage...
 
third phase: kick horns, USB or hd15... something else? a friend of mine has some looney bins that could be hooked up if we had x-over facility. the mind boggles
 
thanks for the replies people
 
btw- winisd says no to BWs in a horn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2007 at 5:30am
I'm curious how you worked out that the BW's wouldn't work in a horn using WinISD, which only simulates reflex and bandpass cabinets.

If you're looking for a twin 15" design, I've got another one for you!

How about something like this:



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boycey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boycey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2007 at 5:59am
ooh-er missus  very cute indeed! what sort of frequency range is that suitable for? would the plan need modifying for the drivers i have? that is of course if the plan is available

re: BW characteristics/values, i found on t'interweb and gave them to sometime poster tendril who in turn put them into winisd and said "you can't put them in horns"

is that qsc a rmx2450? just picked one of those up second hand but barely used [never partied] for 250squids.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2007 at 6:32am
That cab is designed to be compact and plays well from about 45-50Hz upwards.  Must admit I haven't actually done a frequency response test on it.  In terms of upper range, it's probably ok up to around 160-200Hz.  I generally use them under small mid-tops doing 45-160Hz and sound quite punchy.  The driver in those is a B&C 15PS40 cos that's what I had available!  There are plenty of other drivers which would work well and probably the BW's.  If you can post the parameters I'll be able to tell you.

Yup, that is an RMX2450, bought that one for 250 too!  It's a good price for one in clean condition second hand.  Some people try to get towards 400 for them which is a little optimistic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2007 at 2:33pm
I've used the MT102 above dual 15" Reflex cabinets, the MT102 certaintly throw well.  Have not yet built any X1, but need to, in order to reproduce a nice 30Hz fundamental.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boycey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2007 at 2:36pm
i'll post the specs when i find them again- i think tendril saved them for me. 45-200ish hz is kickbass territory is it not? could be exactly what i'm after- a pas2ma1 on top should work nicely no? where'd you get the design- is it one of yours?
 
sorry for the endless questions- i'm more than a little hungry for knowledge on this subject
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